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Advice? Acrylic baffles in glass sump

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Actuary, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    I know acrylic baffles in a glass sump aren't the ideal solution due to the bond (or lack thereof) between silicone and acrylic. However, I'm much more comfortable working with acrylic (I'll be routing weirs into baffles). I'm also not 100% set on things long term and would be more comfortable trying to cut acrylic back out of the sump. Also I'll have a bunch of live rock in the sump and would feel more comfortable with rock potentially bumping into acrylic from time to time.

    It sounds like people have been able to make it work for sump baffles without many issues... my concern is regarding the thickness of the acrylic needed. I'm going to give the Triton sump design a try which calls for a large fuge in the first section of the sump... so I'm going for something like this:

    Sump Design.jpg

    I know this looks unconventional... I'm going to give it a try which is also one of the reasons I want the flexibility to ultimately change things back around if I hate it. I'm not concerned about the bubble trap baffles.. I'm more concerned with the weight the first baffle will have to support. Would 1/4" cell cast acrylic from Lowes be okay on that first section? Or is the 8" drop in water level going put too much pressure on the acrylic and/or the silicone? I could also silicone some small pieces of glass to the sides of the sump to support the acrylic if needed.
    I really like the current dimensions since it meets the requirement of a fuge volume of 10% of the display and still allows enough empty space to allow my display to drain 4" before flooding the sump (I drop about 3" in a power outage).

    Also, there are drilled holes on the bottom. What thickness of glass should I get to cover these? Any particular glass shop in the DSM area anyone recommends?

    Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Chief Reef Well-Known ReefKeeper

    445
    Cedar Rapids
    Ratings:
    +123 / 0 / -0
    Following!
     
  3. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    I bet you can find 3/8 or 1/2 scrap cheap. If you cant, I would bond 2 layers of the 1/4 inch.

    For adheasive, try the 6ten epoxy from West systems. I have been very impressed with it.

    Another problem I can possibly forsee is the surface water of the skimmer chamber becoming stagnant, unless the skimmer is going to return to the surface.
     
  4. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    What I recommend for acrylic baffles in a glass sump is:

    1) cut them so that there is room for expansion. Acrylic expands when in contact with water, takes about 16 weeks for full expansion. Fitting them tight can cause the tank to crack out. 1/8" or so should be plenty

    2) Bond in vertical acrylic strips to the tank on the downflow side of the baffle. 1/4" strips, 1/2" wide is plenty. Don't need to be full-height. These serve to provide more anchoring strength. Acrylic-silicone bond is weak so this can tear away when it's a butt-joint bond. Siliconing in a flat piece give you a broader bond area and that's much harder to break (parallel force across the joint vs perpendicular force). Once you bond those in and let it cure for a day or two, then place the acrylic baffle in place against the strips and silicone that in to seal it. This seal really only serves as a water seal, not a structural support quite so much.

    Can add a strip on the bottom also (bottom panel of tank). Then you can trim/sand the corners of the acrylic baffle such that you don't have to cut away the original silicone seal of the bottom/side joint on the inside.

    Use Momentive RTV-100 series (108 is clear) that's the only one I recommend

    2 week full cure time
     
  5. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    Thanks everyone! I'm picking up Momentive RTV from Grainger today. I was aware of the acrylic expansion.. didn't realize it took 16 weeks though!

    Regarding the stagnant middle section, maybe I won't want to extend the second baffle which is supporting the eggcrate down so far. The skimmer return actually will go under the first baffle of the bubble trap... this is suggested by Triton to move the clean skimmed water out and leave the trapped proteins behind. The flow through the sump should be quite high (around 2500-3000 gph after head loss) so I'm hoping there won't be any issues.
     
  6. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    Should the glass and acrylic be cleaned with something before applying silicone? Denatured alcohol, acetone, isopropyl alcohol?
     
  7. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    DNA is the best for both acrylic and glass
     
  8. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    Thanks! Any recommendations on a local glass shop? I'll just need a couple 1/4" pieces roughly 6" x 4" to cover the drilled holes on the bottom.
     
  9. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    You can cover interior holes with acrylic and silicone in place, the pressure will keep it sealed. Or I've got a few random pieces of glass floating around from a torn down 40B if you want to cut them
     
  10. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    I'm wondering if I should go with 1/4" glass with 1/4" or 1/8" acrylic siliconed on top of it to patch the holes. It may sound kind of funny but I'm a little nervous about relying on such an important seal between glass and acrylic. I like the idea of the acrylic on top of the glass to help avoid cracking the 1/4" glass with any live rock in the sump. Along that line of thinking I'm wondering if I should put eggcrate along the bottom of the sump to avoid damage from rock directly sitting on the glass.
     
  11. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    The tank I'm using for the sump was a reef ready tank. I managed to get the overflows cut out (that was a lot of fun) and cleaned the silicone using McKanica silicone remover:
    McKanica® Silicone Caulk Remover Gel (0354) - Pure Silicone Caulk - Ace Hardware

    I'll be prepping the edges of the baffles and the sides of the tank with denatured alcohol before I apply the silicone. Given that I have these products which I assume are quite toxic, is there something I should do to try to remove anything left behind? Or do the silicone remover and DA essentially off gas and neutralize after a period of time?

    Thanks!
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    The DNA evaporates quickly and leaves zero residue. It's what people use to clean edges of acrylic panels prior to bonding. It's not particularly nasty but they say you shouldn't get it on your hands, etc, but I've never had any fhngzhgrawfheashtgfal issues :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

    I just use a piece of cotton t-shirt material, you can get those in a pack at HD or lowes cheap or just use an old one. Then blow off with canned or compressed air if you want
     
  13. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    Rather than cutting teeth into the acrylic to try to strain out chaeto and other things from the refugium I've rigged up a screening mechanism with some gutter guard. I cut some 2" pieces of PVC which clips the gutter guard onto the top of the baffle. Looks good in theory.. hopefully this works out in practice.

    IMG_20170212_132851.jpg
     
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  14. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Great idea!!
     
  15. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    My back hurts now. First baffle for the refugium is 3/8" thick with a 1/8" white panel bonded to it to try to contain/reflect light within the fuge. Other baffles are all 1/4". Hopefully it holds up! Oh yeah.. and cleaning up all of the acrylic shavings from cutting and routing was a lot of fun.

    sump.jpg
     
  16. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    That was a fun little Sunday afternoon project.

    Before:

    IMG_20170312_144613.jpg


    After:

    IMG_20170312_205222.jpg


    Everything seems to be running as expected and I didn't run into any major issues while swapping out the sump.
     

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