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Advice? Advice on Cinder Block & I-Beam Stand

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Actuary, May 12, 2016.

  1. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    I'm going with a cinder blocks and steel I-beams (technically H-beams or wide I-beams) for my stand on an in-wall 400g. The tank is a 72x36x36 acrylic. I have 3 beams which are 72 inches long and are 6" tall x 4" wide (aka 6 x #12). The three beams will run parallel to one another supported on the ends by cinder blocks. I was originally planning on building a wooden 2x4 frame with support braces running perpendicular to the beams which would then have 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood on top of it. The tank would then sit directly on the plywood.

    I'm now wondering if I actually need the 2x4 frame or if I should just lay the plywood directly on the beams. If set directly on the beams there would be 12" gaps between the beams running the width of the tank. Is that too much unsupported space? I realize the two sheets of plywood will help distribute the load but I'm still concerned.

    Any thoughts from you structurally inclined people out there would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Eric
     
  2. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Got pics? I think you're good since you would have one beam running in the middle. the gap would not be 12", as the beams are 6" wide, so that's 6" actually. The only thing I might do is somehow brace the beams together right in the middle of the run so that they don't twist.
     
  3. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    The beams are 6" tall and 4" wide so the space from front to back on the tank would be:
    4 inch beam
    12 inch gap
    4 inch beam
    12 inch gap
    4 inch beam
    Total = 36" width

    I'm worried that may be too much of a gap. I don't have pics yet (I have my beams but no blocks). Tank should be delivered in a little over a month so I still have some time to get this sorted out thankfully. The 2x4 wood frame I was considering is similar to the top on your typical aquarium stand.
    [​IMG]

    Obviously these aren't the right dimensions but they illustrate what I was planning.
     
  4. Smith11

    75
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    There would be two 12" gaps between the three beams. I would recommend using 1 sheet of plywood, 2 is overkill. There wont be enough sheer force to crack the acrylic but the plywood will be a good force distribution method that also helps to level your tank during setup as shims can be put between the cinder blocks and plywood instead of between the tank and cinder blocks, which could cause flex in the acrylic.
     
  5. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    Thanks. I was actually planning to use metal shims between the cinder block and H-beams.
     
  6. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Oh I see my math problem, oops!

    Per the 2 sheets, FWIW James on RC recommends a stand with no more than 12" between crossbraces plus doubled-up 3/4" plywood, glued together. A single sheet will indeed allow deflection that is significant enough to cause an issue.

    Just so I understand it, these beams are running the long direction of the tank - the 72" dim - do you plan to support them in the middle or just on the ends? If not, there might be enough deflection to cause an issue actually.

    What I would do is run this by RocketEngineer on the RC thread. That's for wood stands but if you know the characteristics of the material he can tell you what the deflection will be. That's important to know.
     
  7. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    I think getting the tops of the I-beams level and true and all on the same plane would be the critical part. Then you have perfect contact between the beams and the plywood with no warping and twisting of the ply. I would also double up on the plywood just to strengthen the structure more and limit that deflection between the beams.
     
  8. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    Correct. I had done the deflection calcs a while back and got comfortable with these beams over that span. The cinder blocks are 8" wide so the unsupported length is only 56" with about 1250 lbs per beam. If I remember I was getting a deflection of around .006 to .009 inches.
     
  9. Smith11

    75
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    With that small of a value you are fine. Do the two plywood sheets as its just not worth the added risk no matter how small.
     
  10. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    Thanks all for your input. So does anyone think the 2x4 framing is necessary between the beams and plywood? I would think it would help with some of the concerns with the beams not being perfectly level under the plywood and would help minimize the unsupported gaps under the plywood. I'd love to be able to get away without this additional layer if possible but obviously I want to do it right.
     
  11. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +145 / 1 / -0
    I guess I still have one other question regarding the cinder blocks. Does anyone have any opinions on dry stacking the blocks vs dry stacking and filling the cores with concrete vs fully filled and mortared joints vs concrete/landscape adhesive? It sure seems like things would be fine dry stacked since each column of blocks will have a beam on it with a significant amount of weight on top of it.
     
  12. LiLNicky Well-Known ReefKeeper

    360
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +197 / 4 / -0
    Why not have a metal stand made?
     
  13. MadManMadrid Well-Known ReefKeeper

    440
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +158 / 4 / -0
    Yea sounds like a lot of work for the blocks. Metal stand would probably be lighter than all the blocks.
     

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