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Algae problem

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by new2salt, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. new2salt

    288
    Mingo
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0
    I've been battling this for some time now and it's really starting to get old someone please enlighten me nitrate 0 nitrate 0 ammonia 0 ph 8.3 what is causing this and how do I keep it under control I run my lights which are LED for 10 hours and then 4 hours of moonlight is this to long could that be some of the problem on another note I thought that with having a sump that all this crap would stay in the sump I have cheato in the sump am I needing something else I did I water change last weekend and sucked all that I could out but here it is again any help would be appreciated P.S. hopefully my pictures worked this time
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2018
  2. Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

    605
    Coralville, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    That my good man is cyanobacteria. And is the reason you Po4 and nitrates are 0. Don't fret on it. Is it ugly? Very much so. Will it take over your entire tank? Yup. But its right on schedule in your tanks timeline. You will suffer this for.... another 2 months Or so.

    Cut your lights down to 6 hours a day, run your skimmer24/7 value out what you can from the substratwand stir up the rest for the filter thatch.

    Red slime algae hits between 4-6 months and possibly again At 24-30 if you are still struggling. Go ahead and cut back on feeding a bit, shorten light if and remove all that you can. It will lat about 2 months max and then just be gone one day.
     
  3. new2salt

    288
    Mingo
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0
    So this tank is 14 months old I fought it along time ago you think this is the second wave? I thought I got it the first time from not using rodi water and it seemed to go away after I put the rodi in maybe it was coincidence so after the second wave will I never have to look at it again /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif
     
  4. Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

    605
    Coralville, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    value out = vacuum out.

    14 Months is a little irregular, but nothing to go crazy over. Check your RODI filters specifically the DI side. If you are toting salt from a LFS double check it.

    Next question is are you using API reefmaster kit? If so you will want to trade up to a red sea kit, Salifert. something of that caliber. Making sure your salinity is in the 1.025-26 range will help as well and keep the tank a steady temp. Try running your sump lights longer to give the chaeto a chance to overpower the cyno,

    Remember that Bacteria, including the Cyno or blue green algae (BGA) are incorporated in the Phylum Monera… these simpler-than true algae life forms are more easily defined and recognized by what they lack compared to "real" algae. Under a microscope BGA cells definitively lack organized inclusions, like the plasmids called chloroplasts. Instead of their photosynthetic pigments being enclosed in little packets, they're dispersed throughout the cells contents. What else is missing? No organized nucleus, the "control" center that contains the DNA of "higher" life forms. Moneran cell walls are simpler, they have different storage foods… Though they may look similar to the naked eye, BGA are much more closely related to bacteria than the Algae.

    So what are algae, or better still, how can the algae be characterized? They're considered the simplest oxygen-producing life; algae are autotrophic (self-feeding), have no complex organization (no leaves, roots, stems, xylem/phloem vascular network); but do contain chlorophyll and other photosynthetic pigments.

    Algae are not, strictly speaking, true or vascular plants, by definition lacking seed embryos with their internal development and the structural complexity/division of labor of these "higher forms". Hence the Subkingdom of most algae (excluding the blue-greens which are actually more closely related to bacteria) is called Thallophyta, roughly meaning "all or about the same 'plant' body" in reference to the lack of specialized structures.

    The various Divisions (equivalent to the zoological taxonomic Phylum) of algae are classed on several criteria; pigments (by color we may generally identify them), storage foods, make-up of their cell walls and locomotory flagella, cilia where present.

    Environmental Conditions Favoring BGA

    Habitat

    The following generalizations are, of a necessity, just that. As a rule BGA are attached forms that cover, loosely or not, rock, substrates, other living things, though there are some free floating forms that can be responsible for "green water" conditions.

    Chemical/Physical

    As you might guess, these "winning" life forms (they've been here much longer than most everything else) display tremendous environmental range and tolerance to change. Including such parameters as higher and lower pH's than "higher" forms of life (that do well mainly between 8.0-8.3); stable temperatures (in the low 70's to low 80's); ditto for specific gravity (1.023-1.025). BGA are euryhaline and readily adapt to inconstancy.

    Alternatively, as aquarists we should focus on providing "better" more stable conditions favoring the "true" algae. Their use of nutrients, light, and production of chemicals is the best defense against BGA problems.

    Be wary of poor filtration or water changing practices that leave your system with too much organic and inorganic source nutrient (or adding more through overzealous supplementation, aka additives). You want your nitrates to be low (less than 10ppm) and little phosphorus content (less than 0.5ppm), through water changing, periodic use of chemical filtrants, and uptake by purposeful beneficial algae taking up these dissolved nutrients.

    It should, must be stated that even given the usual measures of nutrient availability showing low concentrations you may still run into Cyano problems… they're actually fueled much more by DOCs, dissolved organic carbon compounds… hence the careful cleaning and use of a decent protein skimmer as a first line of defense, limiting DOCs in your water. And, ahem, where do these celebrated DOC's come from? Principally (over)feeding. Be especially leery of liquid invertebrate and gelatin based frozen foods… these are notorious sources of DOC.

    Lighting

    Besides water quality, the quality, quantity and duration of useful wavelengths of light are most important in determining the health of beneficial algae and by corollary, disfavoring BGAs.. Use of various types of regular, high, very-high output, compact fluorescents and metal halide lighting have all been employed with good success.

    Filtration

    Filtering water involves all we do to modify its make-up chemically, physically and biologically. This being stated, by doing your best to remove excess nutrients like phosphates and nitrates (through periodic use of chemical filtrants like activated carbon, keeping your skimmer optimally clean and operational). This is a key approach to BGA prevention as "higher" photosynthetic life forms are far more able to survive and outcompete Cyanobacteria at lower nutrient level concentrations.

    Aeration/Circulation

    Cyanobacteria thrive in low circulation, poorly aerated conditions. Hence the call for vigorous water movement and near-saturation levels of dissolved oxygen. Providing powerheads, small submersible pumps, mechanical aerators and directing discharges from outside filters and pumping mechanisms are the best way to accomplish optimized circulation and aeration. Direct these devices to eliminate stagnant areas.

    BGA Control

    Despite our best plans and actions aquarists frequently run into some Cyanobacteria problems, especially when their systems are going through initial cycling and settling in. There are a few appropriate responses to these situations, and one that is often employed that you should (and will) be advised against. Here are the suggested controls.

    Elbow Grease:

    Gingerly wiping the slimy colonies from the tanks sides, regularly removing the mass of the BGA from the gravel and d?or surfaces goes a long way to removing the BGA and their ill-effects.
    This batch might be gravel-vacuumed away. Yes, it's not the "right" color, but this is assuredly Cyano/BGA

    Siphoning

    The bulk of the colonies out. Not only does this work directly in removing the BGA, but something in the way of chemical self-destruction is often triggered in removing the Cyanobacteria in this way. A small diameter rigid tube attached to a siphon hose works wonders.

    Less Food:

    Being careful to make especially major nutrients like nitrates and phosphates limited is important. Be on your guard against overstocking and overfeeding fishes and invertebrates. Also, very importantly, be wary of putting in too much in the way of chemical supplements and to a lesser extent, chemical food from your tapwater and synthetic salt mix.

    Enhanced Filtration:

    Better foam fractionators utilizing ozone, preserving and increasing RedOx potential will increase desirable photosynthetic life and decrease unwanted algal forms growth. Practical chemical filtration can be of service in the pre-emptive removal of chemical foods.

    Biological Controls:

    Unfortunately, other than some possible hermit crab species, there are no "clean up" crews, other animals to suggest that will regularly eat Cyanobacteria species on an assured basis. Instead, biological controls take the form of competing forms. Using macro-algae, live rock, and photosynthetic cnidarians (some of the gorgonians, corals, anemones) to utilize available light and nutrients prevents BGA proliferation directly. These organisms production of certain chemicals further combats BGA spread.

    Antibiotic Control Cautionary Remarks

    There are numerous products promoted as chemical controls of BGA, some erythromycin antibiotic based, others of copper, sugars, even pepper sauce… All should be avoided on two counts: Though they (the antibiotic based ones) may apparently work, the materials that make up the BGA frequently poison the system within minutes to days of their "dissolving". And, adding insult to injury, unless you change the circumstances/conditions in your system, the Cyanobacteria very often "reassemble" in a short while if chemically treated.

    Close

    Blue-green slime algae growth should be avoided on several fronts. By way of limiting nutrients, through careful feeding of appropriate foods and limiting use of supplements, proper lighting, adequate filtration, circulation and aeration, and stocking of competing photosynthetic life. Should you have a massive outbreak of Cyanobacteria, look to the root causes detailed here and attack your BGA problems at their root causes: lack of competing photosynthates, overabundance of chemical foods, and stagnant, low oxygenated water. Beware of chemical fixes for these noisome algae types. They don't work in the long term, and may well poison your livestock in the short.
     
  5. new2salt

    288
    Mingo
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0
    Thanks for the info Zach I'm starting to think with all of your knowledge you were born in a saltwater tank lol but all that info is nice to know to get to the bottom of the cause and I totally agree that buying or adding chemicals to solve the or any problem is a lazy way out and a person may see results quick but in my opinion your only putting a bandaid on the problem not solving it I believe the natural way is the best way once again thanks for the info now it's time to spend a lil more time with the tank and a lil less time with the wife /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/wink.gif
     

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