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Anyone run a RDSB?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vikubz, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
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    I've read a lot about the remote deep sand bed on RC and just wondering if anyone has tried it with success?
     
  2. xmasia

    xmasia Well-Known ReefKeeper

    376
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    theres a few in omaha that are ill find the link
     
  3. xmasia

    xmasia Well-Known ReefKeeper

    376
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    http://www.linomareefs.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=715
     
  4. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    I guess it depends on what you want to accomplish. The idea, of course, behind any dsb is to grow anaerobic bacteria to convert Nitrates to Nitrogen gas. I have never found them to be in themselves the answer to nitrates but every little bit helps. I have DSB's in all of my tanks. So I guess remote or local really shouldn't matter. Most people put a DSB in their refugium so I guess this would be considered a RDSB.
     
  5. snowman82

    snowman82 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    when i first looked at the post i took "RSDB" as REAL deep sandbed :) when i set my next tank up i plan on just running a DSB in my refugium only and going barebottom in my display
     
  6. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
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    From what I've been able to gather, this is a supplemental approach, not a replacement for good tank keeping practices. Using an rDSB is not a substitute for a good skimmer, macroalgae in a fuge etc. I've had nitrates between 10 and 15 and have not gotten any lower. I run a bare bottom DT and thinking about setting up one.
     
  7. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    That is correct. IMO get a Sulfer De-nitrator, they work awesome. It is the only way I have gotten them down and kept them down.
     
  8. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
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    +8 / 0 / -0
    I've been looking at DIY denitrators online and they seem to be a pretty simple set up. It looks like the trick is to get the flow nice and slow through the media. What rate of flow should one be shooting for in one of these contraptions?
     
  9. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    Just don't try a Coil Dentrator (I have one you can have /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/wink.gif) only do a DIY sulfur Denitrator or buy one, Midwest's is awesome. You will start with a slow drip about 60 ml/min if I remeber right. You measure the Nitrate in/out then once the Nitrates are 0 (about 3 days) coming out you slowly speed up the flow. In about 2 months depending on the size of you tank you will have undetectable nitrates. This is of course if everything is functioning correctly and you don't have a ridiculous nitrate problem.
    Hope this helps.
     
  10. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    I've done a lot of reading about DSBs lately and everything that I have read says the key to keeping a successful RDSB is just to make sure there is plenty of flow over the surface of the sand. Now, that's based on reading and not personal experience, however, Anthony Calfo is a huge advocate of deep sandbeds and has published a lot on the topic (both in display tanks and remote). If you can catch him for a few minutes at Fall Fest, I'm sure you can get all of your questions on the topic answered.

    To Joel's point, I've also heard really good things about sulfur denitrators.

    --AJ
     
  11. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    Did you ever set up your RDSB? I'm getting ready to set one up so I thought I would check to see what you did and how successful you've found it to be.

    --AJ
     
  12. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
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    I did, and after 2 months I did not detect any improvement in NO3. I think that I need to do some other things to improve my nutrient export before a rDSB will make a difference.


    Mark
     
  13. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    Can you share a little about your design? What kind of and how much sand did you use? How much flow?

    --AJ
     
  14. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0
    I used an instant ocean bucket with two uniseals and pvc. The input was 3/4 in and ran off a MJ 1200 out of the last chamber of the sump. The output was 1.5 in pvc and drained back into the sump. I used those sizes as they were what I had laying around. For sand I used aragonite 1-2 mm that I had around. There was about 1.5 in of water running over the sand, and I laid a piece of filter pad over the top of it to catch any detritus that might make it into the bucket. I read through the big thread on RC about rDSBs and I think it's a method that will really help someone who needs to get rid of that last bit of NO3. I think the next thing I need to do is get/build a more powerful skimmer to get my nutrients down further. I have a 6 in pvc diy skimmer with a rio 1700 mesh mod right now, and while it skims pretty well, I'm going to get a bigger pump and see if that boosts my production. I also have a turboflotor 1000 skimmer sitting around that I might try out. At any rate, I think better skimming will help my tank a lot.

    HTH,
    Mark
     
  15. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    Thanks for the details. I don't know for sure why you didn't see better results. I wonder if it had anything to do with you using a filter pad as part of the design. I think we're talking about the same thread on RC (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...did=595109) and they were mentioning not to use mechanical filtration, but to keep enough flow that kept anything suspended allowing it to pass thru. I read in one post where AC was mentioning that he used a sponge to disperse the water, but not as a means of mechanical filtration. I would try taking the filter pad out and see if it helps.

    --AJ
     
  16. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0
    I decided to give it another shot, and made a couple other changes. Took the extra lr out of the sump as it was trapping alot of debris. Now it's a simple matter to vacuum out the sump. I took out the filter padding just in case. There's only 3 inches of water or so, which should make the flow off a MJ 1200 enough to keep things from settling. Also plan on stepping up water changes a little. We'll see what happens. Nice part is that there's nothing to watch on these things. Plug 'n play at its best.


     
  17. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    Yeah...try keeping a log of your parameters over the next month. You should be able to tell by then.

    --AJ
     
  18. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0
    Update: Nitrates still running between 5 and 10. I don't think the rDSB is as much to credit as is the more diligent water change regimen. I did about a 30% water change several weeks ago and 10% per week since then. I might do another 20% one pretty soon.
     
  19. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    Thanks for the update...good to know!

    --AJ
     
  20. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
    Ratings:
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    I am having a doubt about the rdsb system. The idea is that with a 5 gallon bucket of sand you can set up a huge anaerobic bacteria colony to convert nitrates, but there is new evidence cited on RC that the anaerobic bacteria only colonize a narrow layer below the aerobic zone, and not the whole of the sand bed. The result is that while you do get the anaerobic bacteria, the volume would be so small in comparison to the volume of water involved that the results are negligible. I'll have to run this by the RC crowd and see what they have to say.

     

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