1. Do you have an old account but can't access it?


    See Accessing your GIRS Account or Contact Us - We are here to help!

Balanced Calcium & Alkalinity Levels

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sponge, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0

    I have consistently seen where reefers talk about a balnce between the CA and Alk. For example, I have heard if the Alk is at 10dKh, the CA should be 450ppm or, Alk at 8dKh, the CA at 420ppm. Can someone explain this or provide a link (or 2) where this is explained? I've been dosing Alk to get the reading to 10dKh( it's there) but was trying to lower the CA to 420ppm. I'm wanting to get good growth with the SPS's I have /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif Thanks in advance/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/biggrin.gif
     
  2. Chris C. Experienced Reefkeeper GIRS Member

    Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +46 / 0 / -0
    I wish I could find the real articles that I wanted to share with you, but I couldn't. Someone that is more of a chemist should be able to explain this to you, but you might need to post this on reef2reef or reefcentral.

    http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/122294-parameters-reef-tank.html

    http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/95211-have-you-checked-your-alkalinity-today.html
     
  3. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Here is a good article on it.
    http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php
     
  4. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/series/view/calcium-alkalinity-reef-aquarium-series?video=62
     
  5. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    Thanks guys!! I will be reading and watching this weekend :0)
     
  6. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    Okay everyone, I did the reading and watching videos but I'm still struggling, at least in my mind. One of the things I learned was that one should match and keep the tanks' alk at the same level of the salt mix one uses. Do you do this?

    I also had my memory refreshed on-- that low nutrient systems with SPS's should keep the alk level lower to prevent alk burn. Do you agree and follow this? If yes, what do you keep your alk at? What does your phosphate and nitrate levels average? I carbon dose daily with vinegar and have just increased to 30ml as the nitrates have gone up to about 20ppm (API) /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/sad.gif Yes, you can call me "Slacker"! lol

    Because stability is so important, especially with SPS's, here's where I'm really struggling...water changes! WC's can affect the alk and calcium balance...according to Randy H-Farley. The imbalance can occur upon a water change, ie .immediately or over the course of weeks or months. He states that one should correct the imbalance when it is seen. So, I've been dosing the Alk part only (BRS Soda Ash) to raise my alk to 10 dKh. {On July 30th, I tested my makeup water (Reef Crystals @ 1.026) and Alk was 11.088 using the Hanna Checker; CA was 520 -530(Elos). Is this what you get?} I do weekly water changes at about 12-15 gallons....

    So keeping in mind that I have been raising the alk only ( about 10.7 - 10.8 dKh presently)...alk burn & low nutrients & vinegar dosing)...WC's affect CA & ALK 'Balance' ... my Alk has gone up a little with each WC but the calcium has REALLY GONE UP then!...about 20ppm with each WC. So what do you think?

    On a final note, most of my SPS's are frags...they have been encrusting but I've seen little growth vertically and/or with branching. LPS's are growing more heads (Duncan, Hammer, Frogspawn...) but there has been no verticle/heighth growth! Why?
     
  7. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    I have never once checked alk or calcium in my makeup water. I check the tank and adjusted to the specific range I am after. I was dosing with pumps, and I got them set up using the BRS guidelines, monitored the parameters close for the first couple weeks and made slight adjustments, then let them run. Check every week or so to make sure all was sitting correct. Once I got comfortable I would go months without testing and they would hold just fine.

    Any reason you are raising the ALK? It seems pretty high already, and with your water change schedule it sounds like its holding things just fine without additional dosing.

    All that growth seem pretty typical.
     
  8. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    Thanks for the response David! I started out dosing Kalk a long time ago because the alk would be too low just with the WC's. I quit kalk because the CA got into the +500 range. So, I got the doser from BRS and started dosing alk. I wanted to maximize growth and thought that getting the alk at 10dKh would be a good level considering it's the middle of the range and, the level in Reef Crystals wouldn't suddenly send the alk higher in the tank upon a WC.

    Although there are several answers I'm looking for, the most pressing ones are: What determines (and/or how to) the need to do a WC especially when one is carbon dosing with acceptable NO and PO levels? What level should CA be when alk is 10dKh? Knowing when dosing a 2-part, one is "suppose to" also dose Ca and Magnesium, but what effect does +500ppm CA and + 1600 Mag have on the corals?

    In addition to your, David, I'd REALLY like to get several members thoughts and opinions so help me out here guys :-0)
     
  9. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    Bump
     
  10. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Well, as David mentioned, I have to say, you're probably more fastideous about your alk and ca parameters than most are!

    With ULNS systems it is recommended that you not exceed the alk conditions found in NSW ~8dkh or risk alk burn. Anything over 10 and you're really asking for it! But at 20ppm nitrates, you haven't really achieved ULNS yet. In fact, if you've been on this carbon dosing regime for any extended period of time (>2 months) and your nitrates are still creeping into the 20ppm range, you should be trying to determine if for some reason you are po4 limited (uncommon, and unlikely). If you're not po4 limited, you will want to throttle your carbon dosage up over the next couple of weeks and should expect to see some results.

    One of the benefits of running a ULNS is that you shouldn't need to do many water changes, and when you do, small water changes should be adequate to replenish trace elements. Nitrates and phosphates should pretty well extinguish themselves naturally, water changes for trace elements, and you should be using a 3 part dosing system (mg, ca, & alk). Thus, RC salt should be suitable even though it's alk and ca surpasses what your needs are, if dosed in small amounts it should have a negligible impact on the systems over all level of alk and ca. RC was really developed for conventional systems where high levels of alk and ca are used to accelerate growth (albeit brittle carbonate). So there is no real benefit in using it when something like I/O is available with the correct level of alk and ca, and all the trace elements you need, not to mention a few (but unconfirmed) organic salts available for bacterial blooms to feed your corals. Especially when I/O is so much cheaper.

    Until your nutrient levels reach ultra low levels you won't need to worry about alk burn, and toiling over stability in a closed system is probably more relative than you can imagine. A 10% +/- fluctuation of alk/ca/mg/no3/po4 concentration will undoubtedly effect growth speed, but not have lasting effects on the physiology of the specimens themselves. So being overly concerned with stability is probably less necessary than you might imagine. If you are particularly concerned about meeting your maximum sustainable yield, week after week (as is the case with commercial operations) then extra care is warranted. But as a hobbyist, good color, and good shape should be the benchmark of desire. Lateral encrusting growth prior to vertical growth is the norm. If you have good nutrient conditions, feed frequently, excellent color and polyp extension then you will see all the indicators you will most prefer in your sps system.
     
  11. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    Thanks Andy! You nailed it all for me!!! I WAS po4 limited for about 2 years...finally got some po4 to show up on ultra low phosphorus Hanna checker....then it went the other way since I had been working hard to get it to register on testing! Go figure :0) PO4 now at .03 so is getting down there again finally! NO3 are usually 0-5 but I've been slacking (trying to get the alk and CA issue resolved, dialing in doser, etc...)! I have increased vinegar/carbon dosing in the last 2 days so it's on its way to going down. I'm going to slowly reduce alk then. Will try going 2 weeks before WC and see what that does :0) Have about 3 boxes of RC still to use before switching to I/O...why not go cheaper especially when wanting lower alk and Ca?!

    Thanks again Andy!! BTW, you're going to drool when you hear what sticks I'm getting! Not going to tell yet ... They have to grow up first before I let the cat out of the bag!!!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.