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Advice? Biocube - start all over??????

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by beckerj3, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +615 / 2 / -0
    I've had my Red Sea Max 130d - 32 gallon cube tank for 3 1/2 years now. I bought it as a complete set-up - rock, sand and all. When I bought it, the rock was covered with algae. As I never had any significant problems with algae in my 75 gallon tank, I thought, no problem - I can fix the problem. Well, I was naive about algae. I didn't know it was bryopsis.

    I re-used the sand. I used a tooth brush and removed all the algae. And I've had problems ever since. Over the last 3 years I've tried various things - all which have worked for awhile, only to have the problem come back. I tried raising the magnesium levels with Kent Marine Tech-M magnesium. I've removed the rocks one at a time and used hydrogen peroxide to remove the bryopsis. I've tried Fauna Marin's Ultra Algea X. Well its back again, and I've had enough.

    I'm trying to decide what to do. I'm pretty much settled on starting completely over with new rock and new sand. I'll remove the corals from the rocks as best as can.

    An alternative suggestion is that I remove the corals and do a muratic acid dip on the existing rock. I'm just not sure I want to make that effort, not knowing 100% that it would be effective. I DON'T WANT ANYMORE BRYOPSIS.

    Since it is only a 32 gallon tank, I figure that 25# of rock is probably sufficient - so it won't break the bank to get new rock - and I'm thinking it may be worth the effort and price for the peace of mind.

    What would you do?????????
     
  2. Roman Experienced Reefkeeper

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +321 / 3 / -0
    If I am going through the process of tearing down I wouldn't take the chance . I would get all new. As for the corals I would be afraid to chance them as well since it sounds like you have tried everything . I would probably qt them and make sure they are free and clear as well
     
  3. So my suggestion may seem a bit convoluted but here follow with me. I would probably bite the bullet and begin the teardown. (think of it as a massive spring cleaning:) )
    Consider purchasing either a clean up crew or coral friendly cleaner, perhaps a copper-band butterfly. Something to aid in the QT/cleaning process for the corals.

    Move your corals to something temporary like even a large rubbermaid tub with plenty of circulation and light but no toxic effects.

    Once you get the cube all set up Yes, with new rock - there is always someone tearing down a tank with extra - you could either cycle through cleanly before adding your corals or consider starting all over with your current rock.
    That would obviously necessitate a complete sun bleaching and long-reseeding cycle
    but it depends on how attached you are to that specific rockwork.

    You could almost certainly find a new, good home for that fish then or just keep your cleanup crew and now have a 'from scratch' tank to get going on the right foot.

    Sounds simple, of course, I'm not the one having to do it. Good luck! Let my favorite advice I always violate apply - NOTHING GOOD EVER HAPPENS FAST ON A REEF TANK :)
     
  4. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    I think your plan to start over is a good one. Plus it gives you an opportunity to really take your time and do your scape and stocking exactly as you want.

    There are some days I wish I could easily start over from scratch on my 250, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.
     
  5. Fence13 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Des Moines
    Ratings:
    +300 / 1 / -0
    I would second the all new rock and all new sand, but if you want to save some time, start cycling rock in a container while you work out the logistics of everything else. At the same time, you might want to think about possibly upgrading or changing out tanks. I know when I wanted to change my 65 I upgraded to a 90 :) You could even downsize to a smaller tank setup too.

    Dipping the coral in H2O2 should kill any algae prior to moving it to the QT or frag tank. I've had great success with H2O2 in removing byropsis over the years and I do this on most frags I buy.
     
  6. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +615 / 2 / -0
    Thanks for the replies. I'm not worried about the corals - unless I was going to keep the rock. The bryopsis has never been so bad that it has covered any of the corals or even gotten near them. Most of the bryopsis is confined to the bottom rocks. The bryopsis is just enough on the rocks, that I'm constantly (as in every 3-6 months) working to keep it in check - as you know I'm a stickler for a clean tank! I've taken many frags out of the tank and placed in my frag tank for months w/o any problem.

    If anyone else has any thoughts - I'm still listening. :)
     
  7. Oz New User

    8
    Davenport
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    I had a similar issue about a year into my large tank. I have several tangs and emerald crabs, along with the standard clean-up crew. I also tried sea hares but they didn’t make any impact and eventually died.


    I was eventually able to get it sort of under control but the hair algae is not completely eliminated.


    First I started vodka dosing and got my Nitrate down to 0.25 from about 5.0. I will add that the vodka dosing didn't do a lot to remove the phosphate, which is still at about .1 to .04 on a Red Sea test. This took about a month.


    I then scrubbed the rocks clean down to the coralline algae base with brushes and replaced them back in the main tank.


    I turned down the RED leds on my lights. I am not sure how much of an impact this had but since I made this change at the same time, I thought it should be included.


    The algae has not returned to the areas that were cleaned. I had several tangs that were not doing their jobs when the algae was out of control but now seem to work the rocks more. I read somewhere that the longer hair algae takes in more iodine and becomes more is more distasteful. Possibly the tangs are now doing their jobs better now that the longer algae is scrubbed away.


    I feel like if I had completely scrubbed all my algae away like you have, and kept the nutrients down I would have completely eliminated the issue.


    I would also close by adding a MACNA utube link to an interesting discussion about phosphate and hair algae. The gist of which is to suggest that there is more than just phosphate and nitrate that impact the hair algae issue.


     
  8. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    I don't know if Mike @MJB Tanks@MJB Tanks is online anymore but he had a huge bryposis issue. The strength of bryopsis can be it's wn undoing...meaning, you can pull it out manually and the strands won't break.

    Literally, he pulled all his rock out and grabbed the bryopsis with a tweezers or pliers and pulled each strand out one at a time. The roots and all come out and leave nothing behind inside the rock.

    Since he did that he has had no return of the bryopsis.
     
  9. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +615 / 2 / -0
    In answer to a couple questions s/comments.

    I am not attached to the specific rocks that I have, except that it has some unusual blue coralline algae that anyone that has seen my tanks knows and always comments on. But if I take the acid approach, I loose that anyway.

    Yes, with new rock, I will get it cycled before removing the old rock.

    I like the stories of other people that have beaten bryopsis. But I've had the tank 3 years now and I've thought at least a couple times that I beat it. When I took all the rock out, treated it with hydrogen peroxide and scrubbed it with a toothpick, it was gone for at least 6-9 months before it came back. I just don't want to do that once a year........

    Fence - a larger tank might be nice but the 30 gallon cube is all that will fit in the den....

    So, I'm still leaning to new rock. I've been looking at pics of aquascaping, but haven't seen anything that just grabs me. Anybody seen a picture of roughly a 30 gal cube that you really like the aquascaping of?

    In January I added some pieces of Marine pure ceramic plate for additional filtration. I hate to discard it. Do you think it would be OK to use as is? Should it be cleaned with something? I could take it out now, clean it if necessary and then put it in my display sump to start seeding.
     
  10. jeremy Acro Addict

    Davenport, IA
    Ratings:
    +836 / 4 / -0
    If it was me. I would take it all out. Acid bath and cycle in a tote. I would do the same with the ceramic block. I would also get rid of sand and water. Dry out tank and clean it.
    If you want different rock. I am running the Walt smith 2.1 real reef rock. I really like it. It's dry and you can come up with some really nice aqua scape with it.

    I am sure if you take a couple days to aqua scape your tank before you add water you will come up with something you really like.
    I just did a scape and left it for a day or so to make sure I liked it. I ended up tearing it down and redoing it 4 times before I had something I liked. Also keeping coral placement in mind when doing it.
     
  11. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +615 / 2 / -0
    Did a bunch of reading last night, and I have eliminated the option of an acid bath. Just too caustic, that I don't want to mess with it. Not worth the effort - to kill all the rock, wait for the rock to cycle, find a place to house all the corals from the tank that are unaffected.......

    So I am down to 2 options - 1) New rock or 2) Hydrogen peroxide dip. - or a combination of the 2 methods.

    Most of the bryopsis is on the 2 main bottom rocks. So, maybe I get a couple new rocks and dip the remaining rocks. When I did the bryopsis dip a couple years ago, I don't know how long I dipped the rocks, and not knowing that it was going to be such a pita, or that the roots are deep, I may not have focused hard enough on getting the peroxide into the nooks and crannies.

    @hart@hart - you had good luck with killing bryopsis using peroxide IN the tank. Any thoughts the best way to treat the deep roots of bryopsis on rocks outside the tank??
     
  12. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    You are ok killing the rock? If so just soak them in peroxide. If you don't want to go that far take them out, run peroxide over them and scrub well with stiff brush, dunk in RO water (or salt) but discard that water because it will have peroxide in it. Then I would even do another dunk in clean water before putting back. Just be sure it gets in the nooks.

    I buy sodium percarbonate online. It's cheap. Active ingredient in oxyclean, but I get it pure. When added to hot water makes a strong hydrogen peroxide solution. I use it for cleaning fish stuff, carpets, just all sorts of stuff. To really nuke the rock if desired bucket of hot water and couple tablespoons makes a stronger solution (and cheap) of peroxide - not dangerously high for us though.

    It really works great on old skimmers and such. I tried everything to clean the haze of brown off old skimmer, soaking in the above solution did it. Just FYI.
     
  13. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    Oh on thing that really did the nasty bryopsis in was having urchins. They wouldn't touch it normally, but after spot treatment it would discolor and they would eat it. I eventually eliminated it, but took a while.

    I had a big Halloween pincushion, normal pincushion, couple short black spiked guys (names fail me right now) - I remember the above eating it.

    Also had longspine and couple tuxedo. I love the tux, but I can't remember if they ate it or not.

    Once I ran out of algae I had to rehome the short black spiked guys as they ate some plating monties, but they were totally out of food.

    Crazy enough the only place I found to have a good selection of urchins is petco at Jordan creek. I think I got every one from there, not all at once, but I would hit every lfs and always strike out, but petco had different ones from time to time and never had one die from there.
     
  14. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +615 / 2 / -0
    So I pulled the trigger today an ordered new rock - Pukani rock from BRS. I will carefully remove existing corals - doing my best not to get any of the rock (and/or using hydrogen peroxide on the corals). I may also try to save parts of a couple rocks as I have a large rock covered with meteor shower cyphastrea. Also I have another rock with a bright green SPS I got from @hart@hart that has really encrusted nicely that I hate to lose all the encrusting! Sorry for the extra pink looking shadows. I didn't want to spend the time color correcting the photo. @hart@hart - thanks for the suggestion on hydrogen peroxide. Looks like the smallest size is a 2# bag (dry) - probably a lifetime supply!!


    DSC04508.JPG


    DSC04505.JPG
     
  15. Buku Well-Known ReefKeeper

    597
    Ankeny, IA
    Ratings:
    +202 / 4 / -0
    If anyone in your area has a coral saw, you could ask for their help. I have the gryphon coral saw and I have cut rocks up to save encrusted colonies. Works nicely.
     

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