Bluefools Pit of Money...er.....300 gallon tank build thread.

Edit: there are supposed to be pics in here, I'm not sure whats up but the code is there but photobucket images aren't showing....I seem to remember someone else having this problem a bit ago...did they find a solution?  Search is getting me nothing.
Re-edit, I found that post, lets see if that worked.  Not individual captions...but hey.
Yep...this is my newbie tank /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif. Won't it look swell full of Xenia?? /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/wink.gif

Lots of freshwater experience but these are the first salt fish ever.

And yes, they are heading into the display. I hear real mixed things about the yellow tails, but I figure in a 300 with rockwork they should be happy for a long time. If not, the sump will be bigger than a lot of tanks people put fish in /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/wink.gif.






" src="%3Ccenter%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/?action=view&current=thickness.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/thickness.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22thickness%22%3E%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/?action=view&current=standone.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/standone.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Stand%22%3E%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/?action=view&current=themonster.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/themonster.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22tank%22%3E%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/?action=view&current=skimmerfit.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/skimmerfit.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Space%20enough%22%3E%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/?action=view&current=Qtank.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Fish%20Tank/Qtank.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22QTank%22%3E%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%20%3C/center%3E">

This is the shot of my hand for reference...1 1/2" acrylic goodness.


The stand. It may not wind up there for sure, but thats the idea for the moment. The finish is a bit rushed; the hardware all got stained along with the wood (including the brass locks...) and the doors needed adjusting, but no other issues. It's huge inside, so stock tank sump it shall be (as my wallet sighs in relief....)


Straight off the pallet. A rather husky friend and I tried to move it, but we both decided to play the old card and not push it. I think 4 husky folks could do it, and 6 would find it easy. I'll need to rinse it and such, so I'm not thinking that it getting rained on should hurt it.


The skimmer makes it with sump included and cup still removes. So I don't *have* to go through a window into the future fish room...


And the QT tank. Not pretty, I think I need to add some decorations since its in a "public" area. The damsels are happy and water tests are right in line, so all looks good.

We may not use it as a room divider as we thought earlier....once we saw it in person its size is kind of overwhelming and it would have been tricky to walk around....no decision until water goes in it, so I have a long time.

There is *plenty* of room for 2 standard light fixtures, so I plan to hang the Icecap towards the back and add MH as desired in front.

I *could* fit the canopy on it, but maintenance would be a real pain, so right now I'm planning on leaving it off. Anybody need a 60"x24" canopy?

 

Well, every time I edit it, I can choose either pictures *or* that big nasty block of code.

This.....sucks.

 

Long time no update, so here we go.
I got a bunch of zoa frags at spring fest, and they are hanging out happily with the damsels in the QT tank.

All but the Tubbs blue have opened and are looking great.  The guy who sold me the tubbs did warn me that they had not travled well, but I'm not seeing any fungus or slime on them, so I'm just going to give them more time and cross my fingers.
The tank hadn't fully cycled yet; I had seen the ammonia spike, but was waiting for the nitrogen.
Careful what you wish for, cause it showed up at the same time the brown slime alge did.  It's only small spots, and I'm hoping the polyps will use more of the nitrogen then they do.
Oh, I had small something or others on two of my frags, and wigged that it was Aptasia.  I dug through a lot of references and tried to post pictures here on GIRS....but my camera just could not pick them out.  While I never did positively id them (and they came back after a light scraping), they were smaller than my smallest zoas (by maybe 100 times or so) putting them outside of Aptasia's size range.
The tank is now moved onto the stand on it's side.  It was heavier than we thought, and 6 people struggled to do it. It's
on it side so I can do some plumbing that will be tough once its upright.It of course rained while we moved it.

So I'm finalizing the plumbing plan and aquascaping.  I'm going to stick to my weird ways and hopefully I can pull
something truly odd off with the aquascaping.  I'm gonna rip off ideas I got from the GIRS tank tours I have been on,
and think I can get something special that I can still dis-assemble if needed.
I've been reading and re-reading all the stuff that came with everything, and found out that the manuals that come
with a lot of this stuff are worthless.  Internet forums to the rescue!  The Apex manual was especially lame...but so was the skimmer....and the CA reactor...and how many launguages does Tunze *really* need to put in the manual?
So, I need to let a bit of cash build up, then I'll get the plumbing done.  I'm real happy I have the QT tank, as I can sit and stare at it and am not rushing the main display build as a result.

 

Ordered all the plumbing parts...and I had to use 3 different places to get them all! PITA. I *think* I have everything but some molding medium and concrete that I need to put it all together.

However, if I have learned anything about saltwater tanks yet, it is that I have missed $1,000 worth of stuff somehow.


The QT tanks is enjoying its brown alge stage and looks nasty as heck. I added a few Turbos (who seem to be deciding if they will live or not) and a bunch of small blue leg hermits.

 

Well, I'll get some pics up when I can find where my wife hid the ##@%@&*@#!!! camera.

The Zoa's I got at spring fest just keep getting brighter and brighter every day. I did loose the tubs blue; it finally opened after a week....and broke loose of its mount. I tried to re glue it a number of times, but it just wouldn't stay. Its somewhere in there, and I may find a colony going eventually, but for now its RIP, until I can get some more of ''em. Both fish are happy, and the cycle is finally almost done. I did a 5 gallon water changed every other day for a month...that may have been overkill, but nothing has died, so I'm calling it a success.

I did loose two turbo snails...I'm not sure why, but I only acclimated them for 20 min....next time I do snails it will be longer.

I *think* I have id'd most of them; I think I have Sunset Palys, Electric Oompa Loompas, purple deaths, and Gorrilla nipples. I've also got some kind of dark purple with a rose ring zoas that I can't figure out for sure....I'll post some pics when the camera turns up.

I have discovered the master rule of plumbing: No. You didn't get everything you need. The store you drive back 40 min to is out of stock of that item. 40 in the *other* direction you find it. You get home. You forgot the reducer bushing for it. Bang head into concrete for a bit. Find out nobody seems to carry 1.5" barb fittings. Get ready to order from yet *another* place to get all the parts.

I finally broke down and called a Plumber buddy of mine.

Larry the Plumbers advice: Stick with the same schedule pvc throughout. Schedule 40 and 80 are *supposed* to fit together fine, but in the real world it dosen't go like that. Anything that can be flexible PVC, should be. Life will be happier if you do it that way. True union ball valves are your friend. When in doubt, stick a true union ball valve in. Glue everything possible outside, and have open windows and a fan set up *before* gluing anything inside. Don't be cheap: use Primer *and* cement.

With his help I built a Dorso standpipe for the main tank (it would have had a constant 4' waterfall if I hadn't). I should get the last of the fittings in today....assuming UPS gets the urge to drive by my place today. I should have the needed plumbing done this week, and we'll get that sucker upright and do the rest.

I also started on the PVC frame for the rockwork. About ten min in, I realized I had maybe 1/10th the elbows and t's I needed.....so back to the (&*%(&*@##!!! plumbing store.

Thank god I haven't been keeping track of the budget. My hearts in good shape, but at my age you don't drop numbers like that in front of it.

 

Long time, no update. We may have to declare the camera lost and get a new one.

The QT tank is humming along happily, tho I do have a bit of a red slime problem. I'm adding cerith's slowly to get it under control, and I put a powerhead in for a bit more circulation. About half of my Zoa's are doing fantastic, with tons of new polyps, and the other half seem to just be withering away. I've tried moving them about to no end, but a few of the frag disks are more home to hydroids than anything else. If there is a pattern why some are doing great while others are dying, I can't find it.

The main tank is still on it's side; I have everything ready but getting 6 peoples schedules to come together to set the sucker upright on its stand has been a real mess.

I'm casting agrocrete out in the garage for the main display. A bit of practice does wonders; some of it is starting to actually look good. I'll go buy a camera and post some pics of the casting.

I think I'm maybe 2 months to water in the tank, and a month or so after that before fish.

 

I found the camera /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif

Give me a few here.....

 

Ok! So, long time no update, so a ton of stuff has happened.  I've got water in the tank now so the agrocrete can cure; two months out from live rock getting added so I have some time to catch up.  With luck, I'll be shopping at fall fest for more zoas and palys, and possibly some easy LPS; we'll cross our fingers.
Let's start with the QT tank.
I've had a few donations of live rock and live sand ( I don't think the sand made it tho), and I've added quite a few snails (ceriths) and one turbo, along with several blue legs that like to eat the ceriths.  I've also got 6 peppermint shrimp, but only two come out....the other 4 were doing fine but I haven't seen them since I rearranged rockwork. I also tried 3 shaving brush plants; only one has made it I think due to a bad red slime problem.
The red slime got seriously bad.  I belive it was due to a long photoperiod and the fact that the QT tank gets direct sunlight for 8 hours a day.  I put a shade up, and cut the lights way back, and red slime turned into green hair alge.  Since I belive that is a normal progression, I dumped a ton of pods in there and am waiting to see what happens.
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium025.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium025.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium024.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium024.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
I've confirmed the hitchhikers on my frags from Spring fest are hydroids.  I haven't found anything that eats them, so for now they stay in the qt tank.
They are however, the one frag I have available for trade, so let me know if you are interested " src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium021.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium021.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
My luck with Zoas is dead at 50/50.  Some are growing like crazy, and others just seemed to close up and die.  I really wish I could find the pattern, but no luck so far.

 

So my big aquascaping problems are like this:
You can't just pile up rock 4' high and expect it to stay there.  This tank is weirdly deep, and that puts any coral I put on rockwork near the bottom way far away from the light.  Since I want mostly softies, that may have been ok, but I want a few LPS in there too.
The center column means that there is limited space between the viewing window and the column....and a mag 10 takes a (&*%(*&% load of space.  I was going to hide it with fiberglass siding to make it look like a sunken beam, but when I sketched that out I thought it sucked.  So, I went with cast agrocrete panels that I silicon caulked to the pillar.
Now, remember this is without anything growing on it at all, so some of the mechanical is much more obvious that it will be in a few months.
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium017.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium017.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
I also added in a few air lifts to make sure I was getting water motion in the tank bottom.  Even at 6'6" on a step ladder, I can only reach about halfway down into the tank, and I wanted to make sure I could get to everything that may need service....and an airlift tube with an airstone in it is about as low maintenace as you can get.  Not only does it up the O2 in the tank, but both airlifts are atttached to an battery back up air pump.  I rarely loose power, and its about 10 min at a time when I do, so keeping those airlifts running should do the trick when that happens.
As for the aquascaping, I was in the dentists office where I watched a kid play with one of the toys there.  It had a central pillar and various sized "donuts" would get stacked onto it.  I figured this was a good way to get the rocks up there and not have them fall, so I cast a big base, and put a pvc pipe sticking out of the middle.  Then I cast "donuts" that stacked onto that base.  I'm pretty dang happy with how that turned out.
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium017.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium017.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
The pillar is on the left side here, the right side is a more traditional rock wall held together with caulk and zip ties.  You can see some caulk and zip ties, but stuff will grow over it and I think the overall shape will be awesome.
Oh yeah, the pillar looks a bit obvious, but picture all those ledges with coral growing on them...you won't even see it.  The spaces in between the donuts are intentional to keep dead spots at bay.

 

Heres a picture of the column from the end of the tank.  You can walk around the whole tank, but the side opposite this shot is where I have mechanical stuff, like my smoking awesome RO/DI from Air water and ice, and the calcium reactor will go there too.  I just couldn't fit everything into the sump cabinet due to all the bracing to deal with the tank weight.   And, I have learned from my freshwater days that equipment you can't see dosen't get serviced, so I prefer to have a bit of it showing in the interests of maintenance.
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium016.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium016.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
here is a better shot of the airlifts:
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium015.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium015.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
and this is what I see when I am sitting in my Lazyboy:
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium011.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium011.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">

 

hmm.....I have a few of those captioned badly, here is the column from the end:
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium016.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium016.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
The sump is still in progress:
" src="%3Ca%20href=%22http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/?action=view&current=Aquarium013.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/boopsierouge/Aquarium013.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Photobucket%22%3E%3C/a%3E">
I may go with a baffless sump.  I don't mind micro bubbles ( just more o2 in the tank) and the sump ( a 40 breeder) is dang small with a skimmer, filter sock and return pumps in it.

 

So, to my mind, the whole point of joining a club like this is to share your experience so others can either duplicate your success, or avoid your boo-boo's. Reading other tank build threads here kept me from making a ton of mistakes, and I want to share a few thoughts in that line on a few subjects.


Agrocrete:

I cast many of the parts for the tank so I could get specific things nature wasn't giving me, mostly base bits and pillars. I experimented quite a bit, and eventually used a mix of one part pearlite (for lightness), one part fine playsand, one part crushed oyster shells, one part cement mix and enough water that it was just a tad more runny then peanut butter. I cast parts in a bin of playsand, and added bits of dry rock here and there for texture. Using this system, I could cast 1 part a day. After the pour, the next day it was hard enough to put on a curing table (just a table in a damp room) where it sat for about a week. After that, a wash with the hose, and a week in the sunlight. Since I cast about 40 pieces, that took *forever*. Add to that the tank is at 10.1 PH, and it won't be cured for another two months....

Oh yeah. I don't know how I missed this, but agrocrete is *heavy*. It's a concrete slab basically. I originally planned the size of the bits to fit between the roof and the tank and make it into the openings. That resulted in 70 pound bits. While I'm still manly enough in my old age to move 70 pounds, it isn't fun, and its real hard to do in a tight space....and my friend who actually stacked this stuff up for me is quite a bit...um..."lighter framed" than I am. Putting a 70 pound donut on a pvc pipe when you have no room already made life unpleasent for him.....which I solved by giving him more beer. I would reccomend if you try casting your own rock, plan it to be no larger than about a foot square, and that should be a huge bit in your rockwork. Smaller pieces are more fun to place. I think softball to just under basketball bits are the way to go.

I went with agrocrete in large part because I'm retired and don't have a ton of cash, but do have time. I figured the materials were less expensive then base rock from Bulk reef supply, and it sure as heck would be cheaper than the ceramic stuff from aquaroche I really wanted.

After casting it all, placing it in the tank....and looking at the stack of reciepts...I would advise against it if you are trying to save money. It's heavy (remember you have to mix it before you pour it), takes a *long* time, is a *HUGE* mess ( my entire garage was devoted to this for 3 months or so) and cost more than I thought. Yeah, cheaper than dry rock, but add in the mess and the time, and I would advise zip ties, caulk and dry rock for those on a tight budget. I also now think that the prices for ceramic rock, which I have always thought were silly high.....are well worth it.

Why?

I have a bit of sculpting experiance. Making a rock that looks good only happens after you have made about 10 that look terrible. If you do this, start with your base rocks and work up to your fancy stuff. Even at the end, I still had ideas on how to improve each bit of rock...and I suspect that process is endless.

Oh yeah, I also tried strengthening the rock with PVC frames....bad idea. It was so heavy the "handles" I made for ease of placement didn't work so hot. Plus, cutting the pvc and gluing it was a pain that didn't need to happen. I also put eggcrate in a few that were thin (like arches) and while it seemed to work ok, I think once you have the mix down right it isn't needed.

So...if I had to do it over again.....I would go dig ditches at night and save up the money for some of the ceramics, add in a bit of dry rock, and zip tie and caulk it into something cool.

Of course, if you have enough money to fill a 300 gallon tank with all live rock, please send me your adress so I can come and rob you for enough cash to build my frag tank /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif.

 

Apex:

After a long debate with myself, I bought an Apex controller.

For those that don't know, I am a hardcore Nerd, who among other things before I retired was a Network Engineer. So, technology and I are good friends, and I have programmed a ton in my life as well. I'm also in Mensa and the triple 9's, so it's fairly safe to say I'm not stupid in some areas. (altho I suck at spelling. Only a small mind thinks there is only one way to spell a word....)

I've tended to find that the more complex something is, the more powerful it is. Also, the more likely it is to break.

The Apex is an amazing bit of engineering. Once you learn how to program it, you can make it fix breakfest for you. The problem is learning how to program it is NOT EASY.

I strongly reccomend the unoffical users guide (and big thanks to AJ for pointing me to that). Way back when the first personal computers came out, they came with manuals (on real dead trees!) that were perfectly understandable.....by the person that wrote them. If you *didn't* have an engineering background however, you were in for some serious migraine time.

The Apex to my mind is a bit like that. The manual that comes with it is fun for folks that are interested in cryptology, but if you just want to make your tank run it's a bit rough to dig through. Examples on line and that unoffical users guides are big helps.

Since this is my first tank controller, take this with a bit of salt: if you are looking for "easy", I would stay away from the Apex. If you are looking for something that will allow you to...say....turn the t-5's on 15 min before sunrise over the equator altered by todays date while your pumps shift to an alternating tide cycle that won't start unless your MH are on, and have it all overridden by your feed cycle.....this is one sweet mother. Given we have several folks in the club that use the Apex and can help you with tough issues, I freaking love this thing. Go slowly, set the tank up and test as you go.

I also brew my own beer. One of the great books on how to do that advises "Don't worry. Slow down and drink some beer." I think that is just in general some good advice, and a case or three of beer while programing your apex may slow you down, but makes it one whale of a lot more fun /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif.