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Solved Changed my mind

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FishBrain, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. F.D. Reefer Well-Known ReefKeeper

    506
    Fort dodge
    Ratings:
    +98 / 1 / -0
    Havent been a member for years so I guess I didn't see or know bout all the drama but
    It Seems fishy that Donny can't tell his side!
    Really enjoy his thread on the diy algae reactor.
    And was nice to see someone put together events for Des Moines area.
    Hopefully donny will keep putting together awesome events in the future.


    Sent from my iPhone via App
     
  2. FishBrain Expert Reefkeeper

    New London
    Ratings:
    +399 / 6 / -0
    Yep nice that after you ban a guy you present your case. Nothing that was said in the spring fest thread warranted baning anyone.
     
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  3. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    As I said and has been said over and over. This was not about one thing, it was about a lot of things over a long period of time, so the argument that he didn't do anything wrong does not hold weight.

    If you wanted to get very technical, the BoD has a leg to stand on due to direct violations of the User Agreement.

    Bylaws
    So it's not as if we're just running around banning people for no good reason, like I said, it's rare. And it's usually for a really good reason or reasons.
     
  4. Why was the thread all this happened in hidden? Why not just lock it so no one can reply.
    I would like to see what happened. I'm sure others would too.
     
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  5. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    One thing at a time. I believe it will be restored to the members section
     
  6. Why was it hidden though? Like I said you could of just locked it. I've seen the guy, I've never done business with him. But if he was really out of hand you should of just let it up. Show why he got banned. When you just hide the thread completely it looks weird.
     
  7. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    I know...we all have lives and making a decision or a series of decisions doesn't always happen overnight. For instance last night I had to lock down the forum when the drama went off the charts while I was at the gym shooting hoops with my kid and his friend, because I didn't have time to do what I needed to do at that moment, and the drama needed to be stopped, screenshots of internal BoD discussions were being taken and shared online, etc. Racism was being accused even.

    No editing or anything nefarious or secret is going on it's just cleaning up a mess. During the work day, and during the evening while family activities are going on and access to certain things is limited or not as easy
     
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  8. Ok that makes since I guess if someone called me and said there was racism on a 10 page thread I would of hid it until I got it figured out out too instead of leaving it up.
     
  9. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    I would agree that locking and making it visible might be a better way. I don't know what happened, but just from my .02 it does look bad to post responses without the issue being visible. I know it will be restored which is important I feel.

    When things like racism start getting tossed around it's a serious issue. If someone is being racist or if someone just is just calling people racist - well either way something has to be done IMO.
     
  10. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    The racism comments are actually still up, those threads were never locked or hidden - they are in the members forum, on an elections nominations thread
     
  11. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    Ah. I am not a member right now so I can't see those, but I can see the response threads like this one and others.
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Actually I was incorrect (not the voting thread), but it was on a thread in the members-only forum that is still open (in the Club Business sub-forum)

    There was never a racial slur uttered.

    The accusation of racism was and still is a complete mystery to me and the rest of us.
     
  13. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    The racism accusation was made after Craig called someone out as the "mole" on the Board of Directors. To put it shortly, someone took a screenshot of an inappropriate comment that was made in a private BoD discussion forum (which was kind of heated, and admittedly it was kind of my fault that it got heated) and then that found it's way to a bunch of vendors who were at the show. One of them shared it with me and I talked to him and explained that it was a private (non-public) discussion, at which point he went forth to pass that information on to other vendors whom he knew had also seen it, basically in order to stop the social media explosion.

    But the damage was done

    Through a logical process of elimination (using things like seeing when certain users had last been online, looking at IP address, browser types being used, and other things like that) we (well, I) was able to eliminate most BoD members without even asking a question. But short of that there was not enough information to nail down one person. And short of some kind of security breach (none known of) or some open account with BoD access (none present) there didn't seem to be any other explanation other than there was someone breaking BoD conduct and someone having an agenda to bring Ray down, basically. I know that the target was Ray. We all know the target was Ray.

    Someone thought that making the point to me directly so that I could address any inappropriate comments was not the right path. It was apparently better to start a firestorm with vendors, who already were coming off a show that for the most part was not profitable from a vendor perspective (but there were many many reasons for that...many...)

    So now we were left with a BoD with a mole, someone who couldn't be trusted, but no one knew 100% for sure who that was.

    But the math led to one person only a few people. One (of those) person people who happened to be, on or about the day the post was screenshotted, passing through DSM and getting salt from Donny. He is also an Admin on the same FB group as Donny. The vendor who originally received the screenshot is one that Donny brought in as a sponsor.

    ((^^ slight edits made))

    I wanted to call someone out, but I knew that if I did that, that would be the end of me as a trustable leader.

    Do you know how it feels to be stabbed in the back, and not know who did it? To have strong suspicions of who did it but not enough proof to draw a firm conclusion?

    I am literally tearing up and shaking in sadness and anger and frustration as I am typing this, the tears are running down my face and I am sitting at my ****ing desk at work goddamnit all

    DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE? DO YOU!!?!!

    I was livid. I was distraught. That's the truth. Trustees walked because they didn't want to be part of a group that they couldn't trust. Everyone got busy and I could have cared less about bringing a new trustee into that hot mess.

    That's why nothing got done this year. It's called intentional damage. It was only probably meant to damage one person but it damaged us all. I had no drive, I was completely depressed about the whole situation and what had transpired in the first few months of the year.

    Craig wanted to call someone out, guess what. He hit is tipping point too.

    So that's what he did, he called out the person whom he thought was the mole. That's it. No racial slur was uttered.

    Donny's reaction was this:
    "...I never did anything and of course you would blame the only minority on the bod Racist"
    "YOUR A RACIST CRAIG PICKING AND ACCUSING ZACH"
    "Its always been RACIST craig"
    "First thought the mexican right craig racist. It was you the whole time craig you and only you always making it out to be me and I didnt do it"
    "Bud blaming the minority also? Wow way to go bod"
    ^ not sure how I got added into the mix because I didn't post a thing

    So, yeah. There's that. Really...no idea where that came from. But it's out there in plain sight for all members to see, the racial slur accusation spear was thrown and somehow this implies that an accusation of racism means that it must have happened, because man who would accuse someone of racism if it didn't, that's pretty serious right?

    You're right. It is pretty serious to accuse someone of that and then blast that all over the internet and smear their name and smear GIRS all over the place publicly to people who don't have membership access and can't see what was said.

    You know what else is really serious? When there is no real basis for that accusation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  14. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    ^^ edited. additional anguish added.

    You know if it wasn't Zach then he deserves an apology. I never treated him like he was the one because I never knew for 100% sure.

    No one had the spine to stand up and take responsibility for what they did

    The vendor wouldn't tell me who it was who sent it to him. Snitches get stitches was what they told me. I only found out that he was the recipient because of another vendor who got it from him, a vendor that is a great person.
     
  15. Oh yeah I did see that thread and it didn't make any sense to me when I saw the post but now you cleared it up a little.

    So there was a private discussion.

    Someone said something inappropriate in a PRIVATE discussion.

    Someone else decided they wanted to start a fire and showed a vender.

    This Craig guy had a hunch it was Donnie.

    Donnie is apparently a minority?(I thought he was a white guy, never actually met him just seen him at shows.)

    So Donnie calls Craig a raciest and that's where it came from.
     
  16. FishBrain Expert Reefkeeper

    New London
    Ratings:
    +399 / 6 / -0
    As more has come to light I think I want to apologize for my part in all this.

    It looked bad from my perspective the way things went down. Donny is my friend so I backed him. Still do but am also sorry at the same time that this happened.

    Bill
     
  17. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    Please don't take any of my comments as negative. I only wanted to give my perspective as a fan of the club just seeing this for the 1st time and my initial thoughts not knowing anything about what happened.
     
  18. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Donny called Craig a racist for singling out Zach.
     
  19. Hunter

    85
    Garner
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    Can we delete these threads, act as this was a bad breakup and move on? or if we cannot get over it call it a 3 day ban and everyone gets put in check and we run the group a little more strict.

    Either choice results in we need to stop talking about the negative and keep what sanity we have left, and talk about everyone donating things to me so I don't have to spend any money to have a salty setup haha
     
  20. Hunter

    85
    Garner
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I second that other Hunter
     

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