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Cyanobacteria

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Seany D, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. Seany D

    Seany D Inactive User

    13
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    Hi all. Let me first say, I am not new to reefing (6+ years experience) however I am new to the group.
    The problem:
    I have had a lovely on again off again relationship with cyanobacteria over the years as i'm sure most of you have. For periods during my reefing career I have been able to drive the cyano completely from the tank and not see a bit of it back for 6 months. However, all happy stories must have a tragic ending (or is it the other way around)... Over the past 6 months I have been battling cyano (henceforth we shall call this the Cyano Wars of '09) and not had any success. I have not changed a thing I am doing. You can see my tank specs below.
    Tank Specs:
    55 gallon reef aquarium.
    Lighting: Coralife 260W PC + Coralife 130 PC
    Water Movement: Koralia 3 + Koralia 2
    Protein Skimmer: AquaC Remora Protein Skimmer + Maxijet 1200
    Filtration: Marineland C-360 Canister Filter (sans the polishing pad) 
    Substrate: Fiji Black Sand
    Contents:
    50+ lbs liverock
    Sebae Clownfish (Adult)
    Queen Anthias (Adult)
    Tiger Blenny (Juvenile)
    Chocolate Chip Star
    2 Engineering Gobies (Adults)
    Ideas:
    1. Could my Protein Skimmer have gone bad? I have taken apart and clean my skimmer 3 times over the last 6 months and nothing has been clogging it. There has been relatively little bio waste in the protein basket. Should I get a 2nd or replacement Protein Skimmer? in the middle of the Cyano Wars of '09 I replaced the pump that feeds my Protein Skimmer and even upgraded it to the Maxi-Jet 1200. Still no love.
    2. I am long over due for replacing the Power Compact lights in my tank. At 6 lights and $30 a pop.. i have been reluctant to do so since I am merely hosting a fish and rock tank with the addition of a few zoas (1 colony of 3)... did i mention the Cyano Wars of '09 has taken a toll on me? Could limited spectrum light be causing the Cyano Wars of '09?
    3. Filtration devices need cleaning. I have cleaned the filter media several times over and replaced the carbon about 6 times during the Cyano Wars. Could it be that I am cleaning my canister filter improperly? I have discarded the carbon bags, replaced the carbon bags over and over. I have removed the polishing pads as i have heard that they actually retain harmful bacteria.
    3. I have started dosing for Cyanobacteria with a product that promises the removal of cyano. I've noticed that it physically separates cyano from glass and rock, however it seems to propagate it further.
    Observations:
    1. There is cyano on the outlets from both the Protein Skimmer and the Filter... interesting.
    2. There is cyano wherever light touches... remove a rock.. no cyano. Leave it that way for 2 days.. CYANO!
    3. For awhile in my tank I had only the Sebae and 2 engineering gobies. Cyano was prevalent. Adding more bio load did not increase cyano returning. I doubt bio-load has anything to do with my current Cyano Fiasco.
    Anyway.. I guess that is that.
    Thanks in advance on if anyone can solve my problem my detailed explanation.
    Interestingly enough.. I'm at the point where I would be willing to pay for someone going all Dr. House on my fish tank and ridding my tank of this problem.
    Thanks,
    Sean Howard
     
  2. phishcrazee Experienced Reefkeeper

    Riverside
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    Just from my own experience, it seems that when my lights need to be changed I will notice some cyano start to crop up.
     
  3. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    Welcome to the site. I would suggest about 3 days without lights...that does wonders to kill cyano. Give that a shot. Ditto on the old bulbs. What product are you using for killing it?

    --AJ
     
  4. snowman82

    snowman82 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    what type of water are you using and how often do you do water changes?
     
  5. Seany D

    Seany D Inactive User

    13
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    I have a RO DI unit, I have replaced the filter media on it about 4 months ago... i'm using TAP, send through RO DI, then add Salt and mix in 10 gal. bucket. Then dump into tank....

    Is there a better method? Is there a particularly bad kind of salt?

    The Cyano Killer product i'm using is something I picked up at Pet's Playhouse. Blue Cap on top with a little measuring cup. I'm at work now, but I'll check it when i get home.
     
  6. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +41 / 2 / -0
    Lighting, heat and a lack of water movement are usually the main causes. I don't know what your running your temp at but if it higher than 76 I would drop it down to that low. Second old bulbs will kill you, until there replaced your fighting a loosing battle. If it's only occurring in certain areas of the tank you may need to add a pump or two to get things moving abit better. You may want to look into a canister type filter to run phosban.

    Side note, the cyno killer is a fun product but if done wrong you can do far more harm than good, and bottom line until you find the issue your still fighting a loosing battle.
     
  7. pwfish

    pwfish Well-Known ReefKeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    325
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -0
    "For awhile in my tank I had only the Sebae and 2 engineering gobies. Cyano was prevalent. Adding more bio load did not increase cyano returning. I doubt bio-load has anything to do with my current Cyano Fiasco."

    How did you make this assumption about your bioload? Have you checked your water parameters. What are your Nitrate and phosphate levels? If you have high nitrate levels this could be a possible cause of the cyano. I had high nitrates about 8 months ago 100 ppm and was able to lower it to less than 10 ppm with a deep sand bed and also put in a refugium with cheato, and that completely elimated the cyano problem.
     
  8. Waverz

    Waverz Expert Reefkeeper

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    +5 / 0 / -0
    I had problems with cyano for quite awhile, I would do water changes every week and this stuff would just keep popping up. Once I started using RODI water with a TDS reading of 0, the stuff started going away almost instantly.

     
  9. Eric Experienced Reefkeeper

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    Ahh cyano...one of the hobby's many joys...[​IMG]
    I haven't successfully kicked it in my tank so I'm taggin' along/asking questions.
    You mentioned that you have 6 years of experience in this hobby - has your current tank been up for 6 years or is this a newer tank with the outbreak?
    How long has the rock been in place - any major additions in the last year?
    Are you running a deep sand bed?  Curious as to whether or not it's crashing if old.
    It is interesting, with your bioload, that your skimmer isn't producing.  I'd be concerned that your water is nutrient rich.
    You don't mention a fuge so I'll assume no nutrient export?
    Have you tested you RO water?
    *************
    I've been having similar issues with my tank - I started in 2003 and had relatively few issues with my last tank - I've since named my new reef "Murphy's Law"...
    My issue could be the water - N. Liberty water isn't that great - had better luck with well water.
    I truly believe my rocks are tainted and leaching phosphates or some other type of "fuel" for cyano and algae.
    I'm not sure about the old lighting theory - seems to be wide open for discussion as to whether a shift in par can cause this.
    Regarding lighting - my problems started AFTER installing brand new ATI & UVL lamps
    -Eric
     
  10. Seany D

    Seany D Inactive User

    13
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    I am blown away by the responses to this thread! I may have found a new favorite website.

    Answers to questions in order:

    The product being used: Algafix - seems to detatch the cyano and blow it around the tank... i've attempted to catch the pieces but after awhile it's the old needle in a haystack game.

    I'm using the standard 4 stage RODI, it may need a new membrane. I have not tested the output for awhile. I should do this.

    The Salt I am using is Instant Ocean from one of the big buckets. I've heard that Instant Ocean is rather... odd when it comes to the nutrients contained within. Something about how it isn't very standardized from bucket to bucket.

    I (lately) have been doing water changes weekly (yes, i'm blowing through the salt like there is no tomorrow... although it is nice always having a cleared door step - salt water eats through ice like nobodys business).

    As stated i'm running a 55 gallon tank with a Level 3 koralia and a level 2 koralia... There is so much water movement my sebae does a moonwalk across the glass every now and again. Tons of surface water movement with my protein Skimmer and cannister filter and these 2 turbanes.

    My heat is at 79. You recommend dropping temperature by 3 degrees? You think it will help that much? I'll try it out.

    The bioload had no affect on the tank because the tanks nitrate, nitrite, ammonia were all near 0ppm. It is a rather stable tank.. which is why this whole cyano business is confusing the buggers out of me.

    This tank has been up for 2 years. I ended up selling almost all of the contents of my tank when i moved back to CR from Ames. My tank was down for around 6 months while the sand / rock / tank / etc just sat there. I ended up washing off all the contents and bringing the tank back up around 2 years ago. It worked / looked / functioned great for 1/5 years when all of a sudden... Cyano reared its ugly head. My current setup differs from my original setup with the addition of:

    The cannister filter
    an additional 4 10 lb bags of sand
    and I removed the calcium reactor... yes.. my old tank had a calcium reactor for a 55 gallon... hah!
    I am now using Power Compacts, where a year ago I was using VHOs. Could it be that Power Compacts aren't doing the trick that VHOs were?

    The rock has been in place for 2 years. No new additions.

    My sand bed varys between 2 and 4 inches.

    I don't have a refugium



     
  11. B-Rad

    B-Rad Inactive User

    999
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    Welcome to Girs! This is a great club with lots of experienced members.
    This is a list of things that I would do to help your situation!
    1. Get that skimmer working, if it is not producing any skimmate something is wrong!
    2. When was the last time you clean your substrate? when you do your next water change vac your substrate to get any detris, fish poo, uneaten food out that might have settled in it over time!
    3. Lower your temp slowly to 76 over a 3 or 4 day time frame, as Wavers has suggested.
    4. Turn you lights off for 3 or more days as AJ suggested. Then shorten your photo period when you turn them back on. You don't have lots of corals so a shorter photo period will not hurt any thing.
    5. Adding chemicals to your tank is only masking the real problems, so I would ditch the additives, and get to the source.
    6. your bulbs may be in need of replacement, I would look into a t5 setup, for the cost of replacing pc bulbs you may be able to get a t5 setup that will use less energy and be cheaper to replace bulbs later on, and have more output then your pc setup! Just some food for thought!
    Were are you located? There may be some one near you that could swing by and give you a hand. Thats the great thing about this club!
    Hope this helps and Good luck!!
     
  12. Seany D

    Seany D Inactive User

    13
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    I live in Cedar Rapids, near Taft.

    1. The skimmer appears to be working. but I can't really tell. Is the best way to be certain of it working is to put in a massive load of protein pollutants?
    2. I ALWAYS clean my subtrate.. I used to never clean my subtrate, but then I developed these lovely pockets of debris where nitrates would form. When the sand was stirred it would make my nitrate and phos levels do some fun things.
    3. I will lower the temp. that's simple enough.
    4. I will turn my lights off for 4 days while i'm attempting to get a new lighting rig. Do I need to cover my tank? It is located right across from my front window which enables real natural sunlight to enter the tank during normal hours of the day.
    5. I have stopped adding chemicals as time has gone on as all it does is seem to make it spread quicker.
    6. I will look into a T5. I would like mainly softies like frog spawn, mushrooms, and toadstools. any suggestions on a T5 rig for a 55 gallon?

    Much thanks,

    Sean
     
  13. Seany D

    Seany D Inactive User

    13
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    a
     
  14. Seany D

    Seany D Inactive User

    13
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    I also have 3 of these. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=ES53401&child=ES53401&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=ES53401

    So ideally i'd be able to find a lighting system that allows for the coralife system.
     
  15. Seany D

    Seany D Inactive User

    13
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    Additional News!

    I went home last night and turned off the lights as stated, turned down the temp a tad and checked my protein skimmer. Its bubbles are coming now. I had read that the remora protein skimmer doesn't start skimming immediately after disturbance / cleaning. This could have been a problem since I cleaned it out again last week. It is now producing a healthy foam that has began to store. So I think we can check off the protein skimmer as a culprit.

    I'm still leaning towards the lights... i'm beginning to dislike power compacts....
     
  16. AJ

    AJ Inactive User

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    Power compact lights are not bad if:

    1) you plan to keep primarily soft corals and some LPS (some people say you can keep SPS too, but I never had any luck with that)
    2) you keep the bulbs current

    If you don't, you will run into issues with algae and poor coral growth and health.

    --AJ
     

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