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Dont break the chain

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tbraz, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    I've been reading about the bay area reefers dont break the chain program in reef hobbyists magazine and I'm jusy wondering if we've ever tried something like that or if theres any interest in starting our own version. the main article is in the 2nd quarter of 2008. but basically its a pay it forward coral trading program that not only works to help insure that your favorite coral is locally available in case of a catastrophic failure or major loss of life in your tank but it also helps spread the interest and helps people who have the passion but maybe not the funds to buy corals.
     
  2. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Give us a quick rundown of what it involves? If its something you're interested in doing, then maybe you can take the bull by the horns and get something organized to do something similar.
     
  3. Kpotter2 Expert Reefkeeper

    North liberty, IA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Love the idea. Yes break it down a little more for us.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
  4. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    What is DBTC?
    DBTC, stands for Don't Break The Chain--the idea is that it works like a Pay It Forward (PIF) type program where someone donates a particular coral fragment with the idea that the person(s) who get said fragment will grow it out giving to others, who will in turn make free fragments for others, etc.

    The DBTC program was conceived by the Bay Area Reefers (BAR) club and has since been implemented by several other clubs in New York and California. The concept is a rather simple system for giving or "paying forward" coral frags with no immediate returns. The program is designed with few rules other than no sales or trades are allowed. The participants make up the terms of their "giving" and it is up to the good conscience of the recipient to carry out those wishes. Unfortunately, it's not possible to "keep people honest". The hope is that by the time a reefer has become a club member and been introduced to the spirit of community and sharing that a hobbyist club offers, they'll see the benefit of behaving in a community oriented way. The DBTC program simply assumes that the vast majority of participants will behave correctly and proceeds from there. It's a true "Pay it Forward" program both in terms of the actual coral being exchanged and the spirit of generosity and goodwill that goes with it. To this end we envision very little direct moderation from GIRS Board Members other than removing inappropriately placed posts and perhaps some tidying up of threads for record keeping purposes. If members are abusing the system, they will be quickly found out by the participants and simply shut out of future transactions. All we ask at this time is that all DBTC transactions (offerings, completions and future paying forward) are posted in this forum so we can use the information to keep track of the program and make decisions about future modifications or additional programs.

    Ok fine, so how do I get some free corals?
    While you will get "free corals" eventually, this is not what this program is about-- this is about sharing and being willing to share with others. While inevitably there will be a bit of a "greed" factor that seeps in-- especially with more desirable corals-- you have to understand the idea is that more will be offered in the future. The way it works is that each coral grows exponentially (ideally), so while it may take some time the coral will be offered again. This program is NOT about stocking your empty tank with new corals for free, what it is about is helping grow a renewable resource and making it available to others for free.
     
  5. REEFS4ME

    REEFS4ME

    99
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Awesome idea I really hope we can get a system setup like this on GIRS
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
  6. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    I'm actuallyvery excited about this and if there is a decent amount of interest I'd be more than happy to spear head this, I don't have any mature corals but I could throw a frag or 2 in the hat just to get the ball rolling
     
  7. ShaneP Well Known Hawkfish

    473
    Williamsburg, IA
    Ratings:
    +126 / 0 / -0

    I like this idea, but like you said it has its challenges.





    I also like the idea of "banking" my corals. When you bank your corals you are essentially giving people frags of what you have, and they do likewise with you, so that in the event of a tank crash for whatever reason, you get frags back of all your corals without cost. It's basically a back-up. If they've grown out in the other person's tank, great, you get a frag of the colony roughly equal to what you banked to begin with.


    I've known people who have paired together to do this. Also a win-win. Granted, it helps to be friends with this person and trust that if your tank crashes that they will indeed give you frags of the corals back.
     
  8. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    very reasonable concerns, and I won't lie, I would be a worried "giving" away a coral frag that retails for $70, $80, $90 or more but I think with a bit of trust and faith in our fellow reefers that we can make this program worthwhile, the idea is tried and true for many clubs and I don't see why GIRS is any different
     
  9. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    SUGGESTED GUIDELINES for DBTC Posts

    The suggested guidelines are only suggestions, all final decisions can be made by each donor. This is a voluntary program and part of the fun is giving with as little or as many conditions as you see fit.

    1.Recipient must be a www.greateriowareefsociety.org member, with priority given to GIRS members and those with active DBTC corals.
    2. Must have a tank that can support the coral, as shown in a "build thread" or other post to illustrate the potential new home
    3.You agree to give 2 frags of this coral to 2 more people through DBTC before selling/trading any of it. (This is to keep the exponential growth thing going)
    4.You agree to pick up at my home in (city), a GIRS event, or a mutually agreed upon location
    5. If I lose this species and want it back, I get the next available frag in this chain.

    Ideally, we will have be an ever increasing number of chains(coral species) and each chain should be producing new coral fragments at an exponential rate. If 1 coral fragment recipient grew the coral out and passed on 2 fragments, the chain would experience exponential growth.

    That’s really it. We’ll see how this evolves and make some adjustments if need be. For now, let’s all begin to "Pay it Forward" GIRS DBTC style……

    Again if you have any questions or comment as to how to make this a better program or how something works let me know
     
  10. Bigkel

    Bigkel Inactive User

    326
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    This sounds pretty cool. IMO the biggest challenge will be the trust factor as we've seen in other posts.
     
  11. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    it's less about trust, more about fairh
     
  12. Chris C. Experienced Reefkeeper GIRS Member

    Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +46 / 0 / -0
    I already have used a bank program like this in the past. I liked it when I did it with my friends. In the past, one of my corals was in a tank somewhere in the country. I did this with reefer friends from other states that I have meet.

    It is great, and requires a level of trust. Also we kept a google doc with what we gave and to who. It allowed everyone to see it.
     
  13. Zoobie Well-Known ReefKeeper

    406
    Bondurant
    Ratings:
    +51 / 0 / -0
    sounds like a great idea and program. I would take part in it.
     
  14. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    Good luck,

    It was tried twice before, and usually died after 3-4 people.
     
  15. Eric & Amber

    Eric & Amber Well-Known ReefKeeper

    449
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well I will take the leap and give the first frag . Who wants to join in ? I will start it with a CJ's Pink Eye Micro , acan , zoas , sps were do we want to start with this . Some of these would have to be cut and heald but i am game for such a thing .

    . What happens if in the chain someone decides to get out and tear down there tank and move away how are the corals they got as part of the program then delt with ?
     
  16. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    way to go eric, and I would say maybe start with some fast growing, cheaper zoas, or maybe a kenya tree something like that just to get the ball rolling and to work out the details.
     
  17. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    Ok, I have corals I'd like to donate, who do I give them too? What do I do?
    Alright, now we're talking! If you’ve got an animal that has grown enough to be shared with others you are ready to launch your DBTC experience! Also, this program isn’t just for coral. Snails, macro algae, fish, live sand etc… basically anything you can captive propagate is fair game!
    All right, now we're talking! First you give them to whomever you wish. They are your corals after all. Go start a new topic in the forum and type in all the gory details! You might want to list some guidelines, or follow some standard guidelines to help you determine the next, best, home for your captive raised baby.

    How to Post:
    1) Give a brief description of the coral in the thread topic, "Blue Acropora" for example.
    2) Give a bit more detailed description of the coral in the body of the message. If you don't know the exact species, don’t worry. It's hard, it's a stick, call it an Acropora! Mention what lighting you have it under, how high in the tank it is, the flow conditions, water test results, or anything else that you think is relevant.
    3) A picture is worth a thousand words! Get a camera, take a picture, and don’t worry if it's not the best.
    4) Clearly state your terms for this DBTC transaction, and what you would like to see happen with the coral.

    Threads will be arranged in a similar way to this

    Beginner – This category contains fairly common corals (non rare zoas, xenia, Kenya trees, etc.) These corals are ideal for members new to the hobby, as they grow well in newer systems or low light systems.

    Standard - This category contains the majority of corals in the program, including SPS, LPS, etc. Members propagating this category of coral have a system capable of handling the coral they are asking for (i.e. established system of 4 months +, and satisfying lighting/water requirements for these corals).

    Extreme – This category contains rare or normally very expensive corals (for example, bubblegum watermelon chalice). Members propagating this level of DBTC coral have a system capable of handling any coral they are asking for (i.e. established aquarium with lighting/water parameters suitable for these challenging specimens).

    Non corals- Any other captive-propagated marine life goes here! Algae, snails, crabs, shrimp, fish, anemones, etc...
     
  18. Bboge13 Pico Reef Keeper

    256
    Center Point, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    I have some blue waving hand anthelia that I can add to the pot.
     
  19. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    thanks bboge13, I think it might be best to start a new thread for the actual giving of the corals, and I strongly encourage everyone to check out the bay area reefers program and some of the incredibly beautiful and some very rare corals in their DBTC program at bareefers.org
     
  20. knowarms

    knowarms

    61
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I think this is a great idea. I would love this to happen. It would be a trust thing and I'm sure it will be abused. But with a lot of us I'm sure will be in it for the long run. I would rather give something away to some one I know would take care of it or like it better then me. And I would rather share some thing with other to if I have something to share then to make money off of it if they are into it to. I blow money on stupid stuff just like every one else. But to keep something going I'm game. I did this on a gun sight and gave away a lot of money in parts. Some abused it and others didn't. But that's part of the game with this.I have been thinking about going to the frag deal. Been looking at something to buy in size to frag and just give it away there. But have not had any luck finding something I like to put in my tank. But will most likely be there if I find something or not. And see what I like and buy it if I have to. I have a coral in my tank right now if it grows and I frag it I won't charge any one for it because it was gave to me. So I hope some will get in on this. I for one would be in for this. And I have this skimmer I would gladly give to some one that needs it for a smaller tank if they wanted it. So if we could get this started in a member only I would post it in a heartbeat.

    Just my 2 cents
     

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