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GFO issues

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ThyRaven, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I cannot pinpoint what exactly happened but I lost all of my recent coral purchases. I am running GFO and didnt have time to change it and it went a week over the expected expiration date. Could that really kill off a 6 head long tentacle torch coral, 8 different colonies of mushrooms and a 60ish head of zoas? If so I no longer want to run it and need something to replace it. I have a phosphate issue that weekly water changes arent controlling which that is weird as well. I know the filters on my RODI are beyond should and purewaterclub sucks at customer service / replying to emails to figure out my account info so I can figure out what filters I need. I am buying a Thyphoon 3 as soon as I can.


    I also lost my 6" koran angel. That is the biggest piss off out of all of this. He didnt even have a chance to change to his adult colors but I think he was being chased by the purple tang and got stuck between the glass and rock wall.





    I have over 200 pounds of live rock, 150 pounds of live sand, a sail fin, and a purple tang plus 6 snails that have gotten huge and a couple crabs that barely fit in turbo snail shells. I have 100 gallon pond tank I want to setup so I can get my giant skimmer running but now I'm flipping quarters on whether to keep the tank or sell what I have and start over. Everytime I get things running within acceptable limits and I decide its time to add on everything comes spiraling down and I need to start over.


    Opinions / Comments / Suggestions are welcome and highly needed to help de-stress the situation. Thanks!
     
  2. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    Absolutely not, look elsewhere.

    How hot is the tank getting, how much aeration is the water getting?

     
  3. Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

    605
    Coralville, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    Its near impossible to kill mushrooms. If you are killing mushrooms there is a deeper issue.

    Extended GFO use (past expiration) is only going to leach more nutrients back into the water. Not an issue.

    Did you acclimate the corals? Do you have inverts that are healthy and happy? are you using RO water at the least but ideally rodi water?
     
  4. Pygmey Well-Known ReefKeeper

    751
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +119 / 1 / -0
    How long did it take to lose them?
     
  5. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I would check your PH , alk, and salinity.
     
  6. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Temp is 76 degrees year around. Water movement is 3800 gph from return pump with 2 power heads in the DT adding 1500 gph each plus a korila 4 in the sump adding another 600 gph.
    Ph is 8.4
    Salinity per the hydrometer I have is 1.027.
    My alk is being weird. Retesting and will post in a few.
    I need to do a water change but don't have anything large enough to haul 50+ gallons of RO from Pet's Playhouse back home.
    Everything goes into a 10 gallon QT before it sees the water column of my DT. I do daily water changes out of the QT down the drain and replace with water from the DT. They are in the QT for about 10 days to 2 weeks.
    Torch was gone in less than a day. Mushrooms survived maybe a week. Zoas look to just be covered with chano.
     
  7. AdamLawrence Well-Known ReefKeeper

    542
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +171 / 0 / -0
    Is your tank grounded
     
  8. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Do you mean the use of GFI outlets? If so I have 1 installed. If you mean the ground probe in the water, no I do not have that. I can put my hand in the water and dont feel and stray current so I dont think that is an issue.
     
  9. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    have you ever been able to successfully keep any coral.
    I know you had some serious issues awhile ago, but haven't seen much update about how things progressed through the "cleanup". Just because the tests are looking better now doesn't mean there isn't some other underlying problem that has not been resolved yet. How long did the corals last before they died?

     
  10. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    The "cleanup" is an on going battle. I think my main issue right now is the lack of a protein skimmer so I am trying to figure out how to get the pond tank moved into my sump space and get it connected to the water column. Corals lasted about 6 months. The dang things were growing like weeds for months. Then poof they all go down the drain in less than a week. The torch was pushing 3" long when fully open. My candy cane coral was open 90% of the time even in the middle of the brightest lighting. I have no idea what went south. I am still testing and retesting the water but I must really suck at using these test kits or it isnt a water parameter issue I am able to check.
     
  11. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My return pump has a 2" intake and out put. Can I adapt up from 1.5" to 2" or do I need to figure out how to drill a new hole for a 2" bulk head?
     
  12. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Never mind that question. I'm going to drill a new hole so i can keep the output out of the walk space in the utility room.
    Now to find 2" unions.
     
  13. Pygmey Well-Known ReefKeeper

    751
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +119 / 1 / -0
    Those kind of corals I have not seen go down hill that fast unless something stung the torch.. Or alkalinity burn maybe. Your parameters would not kill the corals if they are normal.. Did you test your alk again?
     
  14. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    I seriously suck at these chemical tests. I'll run some water over to pet's playhouse and report back over the weekend.
     
  15. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    The salinity is a little high. Those hydrometers are not reliable. I would suggest a refractometer and you can get them fairly cheap :0) If all else fails, get water from another reefer that has 1.025 or 1.026 ; then add it to your hydrometer and mark on the hydrometer the 1.025 or 1.026 line. Then when making the SW, you have an exact line to refer to.

    It would be helpful to know what the "cleanup battle" is so we have all the info in order to help :0) I had a phosphate problem for longer than I wanted :9( What rock is in the tank(Pukani/Fji/etc)? What do you feed, how much and how often? Phosphates can be caused by a variety of things. What test kits are you using? Some kits are easier to use and read than others?

    Stray voltage can be in a tank and only the inhabitants know it. A person doesn't have to be 'shocked' when there's stray voltage :0)

    Taking one step at a time can be really helpful to getting your system running well. We will help you :0)
     
  16. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0



    Agreed, I have seen water test on a hydrometer 1.026, only to really be 1.031 or higher



     
  17. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    I've been battling chano for almost a year now. That is the biggest part of the clean up battle. I changed out my old power compacts to two AI SOL Blues (white case) a couple months ago. Most of it went away within a month or two. I also started GFO a week or two later.
    Now I need to get all of the brownish red colored muck off of the rock and back glass.
    I have the API test kits. Bought them off of AJ before he moved. I have the reef and salt water test kits. I think I'm just missing the magnesium test but could be wrong.
    I'll check BRS for a refractometer and get one asap unless someone in the club is selling one (haven't seen a post yet).
    Not sure what type of rock it is. I bought it years ago from a guy in Marion that was converting everything back to saltwater. I'll clean the front glass and snap some pics of the tank later.
    Sadly I feed the cheap marine flake food from Walmart about a pinch (wonderful measurement I know) daily. Could probably cut back on the amount and schedule since all I have are 2 tangs now.
     
  18. Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

    605
    Coralville, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    What's the dt size?

    Your qt and introduction methods are right on. This is a good system. Keep it up. Are you animating the coals to the ai's?

    assuming your qt is low to no light the coals could be having trouble with moving from little light to a really heavy future light like the ai's.

    api test kids are bit the best but will suffice as a cursory tests. Magnesium will kill coals in HUGE dosages but not fish (unless you are sitting at 5k or higher which is really hard to do)

    Sponge is right (as usual) stray voltage can be hard to see. I have had a power head go bad and bleed into my qt. The only way I found it is I had am open wound on my hand which the voltage wad able to give the near fresh nerves a buzz. Luckily qt was empty but I would have never known otherwise. ..

    By chano akgae do you mean cyano bacteria? Purple pink red or brown slime stuff?
     
  19. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    There are several things that I am seeing regarding your first post so let's begin at those but take one step at a time:0) First, try to get your water tested so you can ensure that good water is going into the tank. You want the salinity at 1.025 or 1.026. You want at a minimum, RO water for the tank and RO/DI is the best.

    You can usually get a refractometer for $20-30 with free shipping on Amazon or Ebay. You want to make sure that it's for salinity and has automatic temperature compensation. The VeeGee and Sybon's are the best out there but they cost a lot more :0/ The DD H20 refractometer is good but a little higher in price than most hobbyists pay. You will want to make sure that they can be calibrated, I like to 0/zero mine using RO/DI or distilled water. I don't trust the calibration fluids one can buy as I have found too many discrepancies with them.

    Now, as far as your RO/DI unit, do you have a TDS meter? They aren't expensive and can be picked up at WalMart/etc or online. Testing the RO/DI water is a mainstay to ensure that your RO/DI systems is working properly and can tell you when filters and resins need changed. As you know, water quality for your tank is the lifeblood to everything inside it! If the water quality is bad, so will be your tank. You will be fighting a neverending battle until this is taken care of and basically just throwing money to the wind! Do not buy anything for the tank until you get a refractometer, TDS meter and, new filters and resin...or a new RO/DI unit!

    Cyano bacteria is caused from nutrient issues and is photosynthetic. Phosphates and silicates are a big cause in getting cyano. It can come from food, sand and rocks. You will need to remove as much cyano from the tank as humanly possible. But remember, if your water is the reason/part of the reason, doing WC's won't help. Phosphates can be bound up in the rock (and sand) and 'leach' into the water. You can literally go through buckets of GFO and still have phosphate problems from the rock or rock and sand. So how do I determine if the rock has bound up phosphate in them? You can take a larger rock and place it in a bucket of SW , wait at least 3 days and then test the water. If nothing shows up, wait another 4 days and test. If it doesn't show PO4, then there probably isn't much in it. If it shows PO4, then there's alot in the rocks. If the rock is old/been used for at least 5-7 yrs it's a good indicator that there is PO4 in it (but not necessarily a high amount), if it has been in a system with sustained high nutrients (NO3 & PO4), or if it is Pukani rock, there's a good probability that there's PO4.

    So what can be done if the rock is leaching PO4? Rocks can be given a Muratic Acid wash. This is an acid so precautions HAVE to be used!! I will not discuss this at this time as there are other things needing done prior to this step...IF this step is necessary in the future. Once you are getting quality water, Then other steps can be taken :0) You will get to where you have a thriving, beautiful tank but patience, time, work and some expense will be necessary. GIRS members will help so just follow our guidance and keep us posted every step that you take and ask any questions you have! Most importantly, BELIEVE and picture your beautiful tank in your mind!!
     
  20. Reefman

    Reefman Inactive User

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I religiously would keep my Salinity at 1.025 every week, when I got my Refractometer it showed 1.032 I was shocked at the difference.....
     

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