Have we all been scammed by led manufacturers?

I saw the forum post with that info and it is interesting. No doubt how high you run LEDs coupled with the heat transfer and dissipation has a major impact on life. It would be good to see a well designed study with major manufactures longevity. At least bringing up the issue might cause them to redesign the cooling systems. Of course many led users have to run way below max capacity because led put out too much PAR- that should prolong life and even if they fade there is still plenty of power. I don't think the spectrum is changing, just the output drops. Spectrum shift is the big problem with bulbs.

 

I am very interested in this i switched from halides to leds about a year ago and i have not seen the growth with the leds like i did with the halides. Now i can say i like the heat reduction and the different color spectrums but i have been thinking about switching back

 

I can replace all the LED diodes in my setup for like 80 bucks. I figure if I get 3 years use out of it before replacing them Im still ahead of electric and bulb replacement on the T5/MH alternative. But yes I agree. LEDs have a long way to go to be the perfect option. Fortunately the field is advancing whereas traditional lighting hasnt moved much past Edison.

 

That is an interesting question ;0) I hope Sanjay is working on a study ;0) I know I struggled with going to T-5's or LEDs when I was wanting to replace my MH-CF bulbs. After reading, reading, reading and talking with others who were using LEDs, I went T-5's on my DT and 40B. I'm happy I did as I believe that LEDs aren't proven yet (expse ve growth, etc) and have a long way to go still. I have had LEDs over the frag tanks and in addition to seeing slower growth, polyp size and extension aren't what they had been under T-5's. I just replaced a LED fixture with T-5's over my zoa, LPS and softies frag tank. How long it will take for the zoa polyps to become their normal/ bigger size, I'm waiting to see ;0) Plasma lighting will be getting a big push in the market soon I believe. That's probably when LED fixtures prices will become more reasonably priced with the major manufacturers...

 

I have been thinking about LED vs other lighting for quite a while. At 1st I didn’t think it mattered with full spectrum LEDs – I mean a photon of light is a photon of light. The only variable we are concerned with is spectrum and how many photons are released as intensity. All light sources we use put out the same stuff, it’s not like a particular bulb puts out better photons, and they just differ in spectrum and intensity. If a LED setup contains enough colors to complete the spectrum there is nothing different about the light it produces. What spectrum to include with LEDs seems to be an ongoing process and lights now are way better than a few years ago with near UV and violet. But the point being that light is light.

However enough people have switched back to bulbs with good results that can’t be ignored. Some were using 1st gen blue/white LED, but some have been using new technology. This is a harder area to address. I have seen a few large tanks that one side used halide and the other LED and growth was about the same. It varied coral to coral, but averaged out. It’s difficult to draw conclusions as a whole from those cases where people have switched back to bulbs and had better growth. Perhaps they improved general husbandry when switching? Perhaps the coral were getting too much PAR with LED (quite common), perhaps the blue/while spectrum wasn’t good enough of 1st gen LED, perhaps the LEDs were not strong enough or faded?

I do think LED has a couple areas that really need improvement, color blending and shading. Advances have been made, but it’s very possible that some LED systems that don’t blend color well don’t get great growth because the coral isn’t getting the full spectrum of LEDs in the setup. Shading is the real problem I see with LED. Large coral colonies start to self-shade and when that happens the shaded area gets almost no light and recedes. This is a big deal. It helps to have the lights over the whole tank rather than just one source like a pendent. Maxspect, not the razor, has a system where you angle panels so the light is not coming in parallel to the water, I think those are great. I would like to see a system that shines up into a reflector that blends and reflects light down into the tank. Like how a dentists light work. With LEDs being so powerful I don’t know why no one has tried that.

Despite some of LED shortcomings I will be sticking with them. I can’t think of a scientific reason coral would do better with bulb lighting and the real reason that I know I wouldn’t change bulbs on time. I hate spending money on them, always have. That is just me being cheap and lazy. For nanos LEDs are amazing, I don’t think t5 or halide are good choices on nanos now and I have never liked the heat and light spill of halides for my larger tank, but they sure are time tested and take less research to get a good one!

 

i agree with hart our leds are 3 years old now and growing coral just as fast as ever and are just as bright to my eye i started with ais and burnt coral because too bright the human eye cant see what these little leds actually put out i went to diy bridgelux and did the solder work myself couldnt be happier with them they are spread all across the 7 foot by 30 inch canopy and i am going to be adding some violets in for more atinic color currently using a combination of 10 k ,royal blue blue and atinic violet corals seem to love them i can grow most coral even on the floor of the tank

 

areeoffaith, have you ever heard of a PERIOD{.} Lol I had to read that about 5 times before my brain could register what was being said.

 

It may not of had punctuation but the spelling looked good! : ) Having new AI's that I am about ready to set up, I am glad to hear of people that are happy with them and that they are having continued success.

 

lol, you like that spelling? just slightly lazy! my apologies Klmule. period. i do like the AIs just was difficult to get the amount of light spread evenly and not to brightly so as to not burn the coral. I found if you put your hand up on the diode trio it would burn your hand due to the magnification. Although i think the controller was a most of the problem. Difficult for the average to set. Yes I do think the industry is a scam but that is one of the great things about capitalism you have the freedom to go out there and sell your product and make $. Those freedoms are not set in stone they had to be earned by the blood of our forefathers.

 

Wait 'til you see my DIY anti-matter lights. Don't think the bulbs will last long but the PAR should be outstanding!

 

lol..... Well it was better than the punctuation and you left spaces between the words ! : )

 

I think it all depends on what type of coral you want to keep. I've seen some great LPS/Zoa tanks with LED's. In fact, I think Zoas look AMAZING under LED. When it comes to SPS, I prefer how they look and grow under Metal Halides or T5. I'm still using halides and VHO. LED's haven't been around long enough to impress me....yet. Perhaps sometime in the future I'll swap out the VHO supplement with LED's but I won't be changing from Metal Halides anytime soon.

 

That is a good point to remember. If you are happy than no need to switch! Halides are good lighting and are easy to set up.

 

There are many threads and debates about what lighting is "better" and what grows corals the best. For 99.9% of hobbyists it is really a moot point if you have a decent light since there are so many other factors in our tanks that affect coral growth. Changing food, how much to feed, frequency of WC, or skimmer cleaning, or sock cleaning, or amino acids or... the list goes on and on. I think lighting many times gets called out when there are other factors that are contributing to the success of decline of a system. Even if we swap lights and notice changes it is very difficult if not impossible to really assign the change to the lights alone. We think that everything has remained the same, but maybe just the investment in new lighting is making you pay more attention to the system and keep better care of it. There are so many variables that it's important to not get all worked up one way or the other.

 

Very interesting chart on the loss of PAR ..........

 

Look at the other side of the argument. Look at BRS and see what they are selling T5 fixtures for. That's still pricey when you compare it to some of the LED modules. Sure AI is good and twice the price but Kessil isn't as expensive. I think if you go at LEDs thinking this 500 fixture will last for 5 years then you're doing it wrong. Look at all the people who upgraded from the Hydra to the Hydra 52. People will always buy the new model and you wont have to worry about longevity.

 

When I switched from MH to LED, some corals clearly liked the MH's better and some clearly liked the LED's better. It just depended on the coral, but for the most part I would say that the coloration and growth was roughly the same.

For me it's all about keeping the heat/humidity/electric bill in check. LED's are a huge improvement over MH in all of those areas. Even if I have to replace my LED pucks after a few years, it's no different than buying uber expensive MH bulbs. And as far as growth is concerned, I think it's highly overrated (unless you're just trying to make money). My experience has been that tanks reach a "sweet spot" where they look really awesome. At that point,growth (especially fast growth) can become a real problem.