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high nitrates

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by scottlittle, May 10, 2015.

  1. scottlittle

    237
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0
    OK my nitrates are up around 40ppm. I've add NO new rock, coral or in about 2 weeks. I added a 6line wrasse about 3 weeks and have not seen it scene. My phosphates are up a little I have new remover on the way. My Rodi water is coming out the line at about 4-5 new filters are also in the mail. PH, Ammonia, Nitires are all good. Kh is at 11 and calcium is at 450. The Nitrate have always been at the 10-15 mark with a 20 gallon water change. So what with all that being said. What can I do to get them down.
     
  2. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    change more water. Carbon dosing such as vodka/vinegar or biopellets may also be something to consider.
     
  3. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    If your RODI is 4-5, that means your DI is burnt out, or you have too much TDS out of your membrane. So a few questions:

    What is your TDS of:

    Tap water
    after membrane
    out of DI (4 or 5?)

    What are you using to test TDS?

    Has it been calibrated recently?

    4-5 ppm is bad because that could mean a lot of phosphate making it through. Over time this can build up and then you'll end up with an algae bloom as the system saturates. Which will likely happen when you fix the issue as well so just prepare for that.

    Your membrane might not be the issue though, I have 500+ TDS tap water, usually 10-15 out of the membrance, and with dual DI I end up with TDS of 0.

    For a cheap DI solution look for the inline cartridges from BRS, you can hook up a whole bunch of these and really keep that down. I just noticed that they stopped carrying these. bummer.
     
  4. scottlittle

    237
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0
    The tds is out the line after the di and before the system it's 245-250. Have not calibrated it lately. Membrane was new 4 months ago.
     
  5. scottlittle

    237
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0
    It's a dual tds meter from brs. And the di media is color changing and is only changed about 50%
     
  6. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    how many gallons have you produced since changing the membranes/filters?

    The more valuable reading is after the membrane and after the DI. The tap water reading is nothing you can control.

    After membrane tells you the condition of the membrane. after DI tells you if your DI is burnt out. That's just my opinion of course...
     
  7. scottlittle

    237
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0
    Alright. I changed the in side of the tds meter and its right after the membrane and reading is 12ppm and after the di stage it reads 4ppm. I have filter coming 1 sediment filter, 2 carbon block filters 5micron and a 1micron. I also have di rison coming also. I think I will put in another di chamber if only one doesn't bring it down to zero. Thanks for all the help
     
  8. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    It may only look like 1/2 of your resin is used, but the used stuff will release weakly held ions in exchange for ones that bond stronger. So just change your resin now. 12ppm out of the membrane is ok so your DI is burnt

    Having a dual DI allows you to wait a bit longer until your 1st chamber is burnt out, then you can change the first and leave the second as is (new resin in first position), or change the first and rotate the second into first (new resin in second position)
     
  9. wouldtick Well-Known ReefKeeper

    381
    waukee
    Ratings:
    +85 / 3 / -0
    Dead wrasse?
     
  10. vikubz Well-Known ReefKeeper

    734
    Cedar Falls
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0
    Missing wrasse is what I'd look for first. 4 tds is not enough to mess up your nitrates IMO. 40 ppm is not the end of the world, just stick with good maintenance.
     
  11. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    The only thing I can add is 4ppm TDS if the DI is exhausted might be enough to mess with the tank depending on what that 4ppm is and how much daily evaporation you have. I was fighting strange issues and noticed my RO/DI was at 6ppm - not a big deal normally, but I tested the RO/DI for phosphate and nitrate and had detectable nitrate (a couple ppm) and good amount of phosphate. With my tank in winter evaporating 2-3g/day that really added up fast in 110g total system volume since phosphate impacts the tank with small amounts!
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Yeah 4ppm could be 2ppm phosphate, or 0.5ppm phosphate, etc, or other contaminants, hard to say without rigorous testing (AWT) but that's extreme.

    If you are really worried about phos, then just drip the RODI through a small bucket with GFO in it. This will rid the water of silicates and a few other things too, and should last a long time. That's just a quick fix though.

    Having 100g with 1g top off daily, for example, if that topoff has 1ppm phos in it, then you are adding 0.01ppm phos per day to the system
     
  13. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    FWIW in Iowa we typically have tap water that is very high in phosphate and nitrate depending on season - buy you probably knew that already! In a couple of places I have lived here 2 were river fed and 1 was well and the river sources were super high phosphate and nitrate from the tap. People in other parts of the country don't usually have such high phosphate in the water that we get. I think average Iowa river/stream water is 7ppm nitrate (you can see updated maps on the DNR site and it peaks in some areas at 20+) and average tile phosphorus was 0.5ppm (1.5ppm phosphate). So even small TDS in our RO/DI here can be trouble, not always, but something to keep in mind.
     
  14. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    yes- Iowa Pet Foods lost all their discus one year when someone did a PWC without checking the water first, turned out that snow melt caused a spike in water quality bad enough to kill them all off. For a while they were refraining from doing PWC for 2-3 months after snow melt.
     
  15. scottlittle

    237
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0
    Thanks for all the info from everyone. Got lots to process and new stuff to try. Will try to update in a couple weeks or so. Thanks again.
     
  16. Eric Experienced Reefkeeper

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0
    Any updates?

    My $0.02 on the water quality is our systems are designed to remove 99% of impurities meaning the output TDS will rise in relation to the input TDS. Your water is testing 250 so an output of 2.5 is "normal" depending on what's in the 2.5 - 4.

    I didn't see a reference to how big your tank is - depending on the size the missing wrasse may not have any impact to your environment, i.e. huge impact on a 12g and no impact on a 180g.

    With your nitrates so high (40), what impacts have you noticed to your inhabitants? Nitrates at this level won't bother (most) fish but can impact inverts (snails) and cause sps to lose color - are you noticing any of this?

    You mentioned that you've always kept your nitrates in check (15-20) after a 20g water change - this is a sizable change for most tanks which indicates you've always struggled with elevated nitrates and I'm curious as to what they are prior to these changes. The goal of most reefers is to keep nitrates <5 so you'll need to dig deeper for the root cause.

    I just went through a similar situation with my 120g - nitrates raised to +/- 40 when I finally checked them. I don't know how long they'd been at this level as I've become complacent over the years in checking the basics such as nitrates.

    I took a four pronged approach and recently things have cleared up nicely and I'm not sure what corrected the issue or if it was a combination of efforts:

    Added an additional cartridge with catalytic activated carbon for chloramines which are high in Cedar Rapids. Theory is elevated chloramines cause die off increasing nitrates.

    Changed water changes to small (5g) weekly instead of 20g per month.

    Started carbon dosing - initially just vodka then moved to a vodka/vinegar combination to fight a subsequent outbreak of green hair and red slime algae from the vodka.

    Moved an automated air freshener (Airwick) my wife had within 4 feet of the tank. My theory is this was the culprit the entire time and as it contaminated the water, it killed coral and snails which in turn elevated the nitrogen cycle (I just tested the end product nitrates).

    -Eric
     
  17. scottlittle

    237
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0
    water at the beginning of the line is in between 250 and 260 coming out of the membrane around 12 with new filters. and coming out of the DI chamber at 4. its a 72 gallon tank and I do around 15 to 20 gallons of water change each week seems like the nitrates have constantly been 5 to 10. I don't think it has anything to do with the six line wrasse and I did move rocks around and try to find it but it must have crawled in a hole of a Rock. I'm going to try with Bud mentioned putting in another di canister and see if I can get him down below 4. my coral growth has been kind of slow and the color has not been as bright. basically have all soft corals with the exception of a couple green and blue cap coral. I think I will also start trying some dosing. Thanks again for the help.
     
  18. scottlittle

    237
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0
    Update.
    After complete filter changes on Rodi and adding another Di chamber water is coming out the system at 0 TDS.

    PH is 7.9 (about normal) Ammonia is 0. Nitrites is 0 and Nitrate is 10-15 and coming down after 2 20 gallon water change . Phosphates are are 2-3 and coming down. Calcium is 420-430 and
    Kh is 12 and not sure why because i don't dose any two part or any thing like that. I feed coral food (reef phyto plankton and reef plus and zoo plankton) by seachem.

    I use reef crystals for salt.
    Any ideas on the KH

    THANKS SCOTT
     
  19. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    reef crystals is usually pretty high in alk. Check some newly mixed salt water and see what it is? If your mix is high, and you just did a couple large water changes it could easily get elevated.
    Also another one you want to check and try to get balanced with Ca and Alk is magnesium.
     

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