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High Phospate

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Szmak, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Szmak

    Szmak

    45
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    I just got a Phosphorus ULR tester (Hanna Instruments) and my test of my 75gal (+35gal sump) is at 127ppb or .127ppm. Can someone give me some ideas about getting this under control please?
     
  2. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    water changes and GFO
     
  3. F.D. Reefer Well-Known ReefKeeper

    506
    Fort dodge
    Ratings:
    +98 / 1 / -0
    I would also check TDS of ur RO/DI water.
     
  4. DangerJ Well-Known ReefKeeper

    894
    Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +322 / 4 / -0
    Chaeto algae works pretty well for a cheap.natural solution. Get some in your sump.
     
  5. Szmak

    Szmak

    45
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Thanks for your replies! I did a 25 gal w/c last week but i didn't know my phos level at that time. I am preparing to do another 15gal tomorrow.
    I'm not clear on some of the abrev's.: GFO, TDS? I did have my RO water tested at Culligan a few weeks back shortly after changing out most of the filters and it was good by their standards.

    Where might i get a some Chaeto algae in the waterloo area?
     
  6. MadManMadrid Well-Known ReefKeeper

    440
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +158 / 4 / -0
    i got some i need to trim I'm in iowa city tho.
     
  7. F.D. Reefer Well-Known ReefKeeper

    506
    Fort dodge
    Ratings:
    +98 / 1 / -0
    TDS=Total dissolved solids.
    Culligan standards are probly way different than reefer standards.
    Should be 0.0-0.2 TDS max out of your Ro/di.
    So doing water changes with high TDS "if that's the case" is only going to bandaid the problem.
    Start with clean water and go from there.
    TDS meters are cheap too.
    Could be many reasons for high phosphate but I would start with TDS and go from there.
    Over feeding?
    Rock leaching phos ?
    Etc
    Etc
     
  8. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Your RO system is for drinking water. For reefkeeping, you really should use RODI water (Reverse Osmosis Deionized). The DI is a final stage where the water is passed through a bed of resin that removes ions that the RO membrane cannot remove.

    For instance, my RO filter will knock my tap water TDS down from over 500ppm to about 10-13ppm. All those ions are a mixture of things, but imagine if 10% of that is phosphate. That's 1.0ppm phosphate in your RO water.

    I would recommend getting a dedicated RODI system for just your reef, because your drinking water RO system likely has a pressure tank and this is not what you want to use. As your pressure tank fills up, the water pressure on the production (effluent) side of the membrane increases and this allow more ions to migrate. So at the point where your tank is nearly full, and flow stops, the concentration of ions on the effluent side of the membrane skyrockets, and then when you take out a glass of water, all of that flushes into the pressure tank when production starts up again (to replace that glass of water). So your pressure tank will likely have something like 100-150ppm depending on your system. All ions, no problem for drinking water, but do not use this for your tank.

    Having a dedicated RODI that only runs when you need to fill your RO holding tank (like a BRUTE trash can or another unpressurized holding tank) is what you want. Maybe a float and a automatic cutoff switch, but that is just so you don't overflow your holding tank. Once the flow is stopped by the cutoff switch, you should flush the membrane before trying to make more RODI, for the same reason - once flow stops, ions build up on the production side, and when you start production again, all that high TDS water goes straight into the DI and burns it out fast if you keep repeating this.

    As for GFO, be careful that you don't drop it too fast. GFO will do that, and changing things too fast can cause problems too. Start by fixing the source of the phosphate, then a little GFO (even in a mesh bag in the sump, no need for a reactor right away)

    Also gotta ask - are you seeing problems in the tank because of the high phosphate? I know people (big names in the industry) who run 1.0+ ppm phosphate and their tanks are fine. Stability is the key. Keeping phosphate at 0.000 is a mindset that created an whole sub-industry so don't freak out.
     
  9. DNW

    79
    Jesup, IA
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    i don't have any Chaeto but I could trim you off a piece of dragons breath. Im in waterloo daily during the week so I could drop off or meet you someplace if you like.
     
  10. Szmak

    Szmak

    45
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    DNW - I'll take you up on your offer for some dragons breath. I get off work at 3:30 weekdays and could meet you, say at the CVS @ San Marnan/LaPorte or anywhere you prefer. I live in Evansdale just off the 380 interchange River Forest. Let me know what works for you. you can email me: smacker63@gmail.com. -- Thanks!

    Turbo's Aquatics - I get what you are telling me about the RO set up, however I have been using that water for 2 1/2 years now. Granted I'm less than a year into the reefing, and that could certainly answer why I have been having poor luck with certain corals. I believe it was you that led me to test for the phosphate because of my issue with the hairy brown algae. I pretty much got rid of that algae by taking out each rock and slowly pouring hot tank water from my water change on it.

    Anyway, my RO only supplies my ice/water on the fridge so I could live without that for now and rework the set up after I get a holding container. I'm attaching a picture of my current RO system, from what your telling me I would just need to add the DI part?? Is that correct or would it be better to get a different system altogether for my reef?

    Thank You!
    --- Auto-Merged, Aug 5, 2015, Original Post: Aug 5, 2015 ---
    This is the RO I have, the only filter I did not change is in the white container, middle top.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Roman Experienced Reefkeeper

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +321 / 3 / -0
    You could put a tee off of your current ro maker and add a di canister before your tank water storage container so your tank gets ro/di water and your drinking water is just your filtered water.
     
  12. DNW

    79
    Jesup, IA
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    Sent you an email
     
  13. Szmak

    Szmak

    45
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Thanks Roman, I'll start with that.
     
  14. Nick Graber GIRS Member

    42
    Windsor Heights
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
  15. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Phosphate Rx is Lanthanum Chloride (LC). They don't make it very clear that it is that. If you google LC you'll see lots of varying opinions on it.

    LC chemically binds phosphate and causes it to precipitate out. Some say that you're supposed to drip it into a 5 micron filter sock so that whatever gets precipitated out will get trapped by the filter sock, otherwise it clouds up your tank (temporarily) and some corals get real ticked off when you use it.

    It definitely does the trick of eliminating your phosphates instantly, but I still don't fully subscribe to the mindset that you want to run 0.0000000 phosphates.

    Dropping Phos from 0.128 to 0.000 instantly could cause a backlash.
     
  16. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    I just tested my water with my Hanna meter:

    Tap: 554
    After membrane: 10
    After DI: 0
     

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