Hikari Frozen Food

Wow. I have been feeding that brand for a few years now. Sounds like a good reason to switch brands.

 

That is absolutely devastating news

 

This can happen with any form of frozen food, it is not on Hikari's quality control. Good on them for making it right though. I can't imagine what it feels like to have a tank of that size have a mass die-off after everything else they've been through. That store just can't seem to catch a break.

 

While I can see it killing the fish, I doubt it is the source of the issues they keep having with coral in that system. Direct consumption of rotten or spoiled food could kill the fish, but in that many gallons with the filtration system I would be shocked if the food was the cause of the continued struggle with coral.

I keep hoping to see that tank turn around, although it keeps me from spending money since I think what a nightmare that would be!

 

I go in there every week and have seen the coral in constant decline not just one mass event. I have no doubt bad food killed the fish though. I suspect Hikari is keeping them happy giving the benefit of the doubt with the coral and isn't familiar with the constant struggle of the tank. I'm a microbiologist for around 15 years now and while it's sure possible for the food to crash the system imo it's not the reason the tank has been suffering based on what I see visiting every week.

I wouldn't exactly say the bacteria were deadly, there are quite a few thing that could have gone wrong with the food thawing, notably bacterial produced toxins that would hit the system fast, but they would have probably noticed that when examining the thawed food. Without more details there are many possibilities, but as I said that tank has been in bad shape since I can remember. I try and hit seascapes every week just to look at it.

 

I didn't mean to make it sound like it wasn't possible for the food to kill the coral, just that I don't think they should place all the blame on the food in this case. It's not like the system was fantastic with basketball SPS colonies all over the place until this event. Since they rebuilt the tank I have not seen a single coral grow (has it been a year or more?). Not a single branch of growth on any SPS, LPS or even a blue ridge octocoral that I was watching slowly die the past couple months and then are replaced with more colonies.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Tim and that tank and it's definitely sad they had another die off, but I don't want people to think that is the only reason that huge tank isn't doing well is all.

It's hard to tell how coral would react to various toxins. Many toxins that are pretty nasty for fish wouldn't have much effect on coral. Think of Bayer dip that doesn't harm coral since coral don't have a central nervous system. Botulinum toxin which has been historically the worst food toxin causes nerves to not fire properly which is why it's used for botox injections - but I think it wouldn't be very effective in killing coral. Even bacteria that could give food poisoning, different from toxins, might be just another food source for the inverts.

I think you are probably right that the food caused the declining coral over the edge. I am curious if the trigger that killed the coral was in the food or if the fish dying caused it with ammonia spikes as it would be hard to get all the livestock out of there quickly.

 

I bet it was Clostridium Botulinum (aka botulism) as Hart mentioned, probably the most toxic substance known. It would thrive in the tight sealed individual seafood blister packs that Hikari uses. Freezing, boiling, microwaving this stuff doesnt kill it. Those packs are essentially petri dishes if thawed. For an average human 100-150ng would be fatal, so it is easy to see how this could accumulate into an almost instantaneously fatal dose to saltwater fish. I don't know its toxicity to coral, but perhaps the coral death is secondary to all the other stuff in the tank the bacteria killed. I wouldn't touch that tank to rehab it without a full hazmat suit. They should probably drain the entire thing.

PS. This tank must be a member of the Kennedy family or something.

 

I was in there last week end and bought dog food and asked them what happened. They still had coral alive but that was it and like Bud said everything was covered in a thick mass of dinoflaggelates, I did not look close enough to see what else there was. I think the message here is to be careful with frozen food to make sure it stays frozen. I don't think I would want to get any of it on my hands and then rub my eyes, or get it in a cut.

 

I do agree that the tank had never gotten to its old glory (see their facebook page for the tank before the first crash), but I don't think it was due to a lack of attention or effort. It seems like they never got their environment dialed in to make the SPS thrive again. It just always seemed a little off after the first crash.