ICH Help

Okay, this will be long...sorry in advance.
I'll start by saying I'm very aware that I should have set up a QT tank and quaranteeded every fish I got. I was hoping to get lucky, obviously not. I have a tank now and will QT religiously from this point forward, I can't do this again.
10 Days ago my blue tang (whom I'd had a little less than 2 weeks) started showing signs of ich. This was one day after adding two new clowns, however I'm guessing that was unrelated. I've treated the tang with raised temp, garlic and kick ich (EXPENSIVE AND APPARENTLY WORTHLESS). No other fish showed symptoms until yesterday am. My clowns all looked bad, but more slimy and stringy than spotty. Lost one immediately, another last night, and another this am. I scrambled to buy and set up a 20 gallon QT yesterday. Used water from my tank (so infested) and treated with Rid Ich + (formalin and mal green) I used this as I think the clowns have Brookenella based on symptoms and formalin is supposed to help that. Guessing my treatment was too late, one is still hanging on but looks bad and not eating. I put the tang in the QT tank last night and it freaked, and then looked pale and stressed at the bottom. I left her in there for 4 hours but then thought she was dying so returned her to the Display tank. In the display tank she eats (but not the metronidazole food paste I ordered and mixed up) she'll eat anything else though. She looks pretty bad...Still in my display tank are a goby who appears unaffected, and 2 damsels who look bad but I haven't been able to catch to move yet.
I've been to DSM 4 times this week to buy different stuff, I have a cleaner shrimp who doesn't clean, bought a neon goby who did a great job cleaning for the 2 days until it got ich and died. I've got Copper safe that I haven't used yet, the Rid Ich +.
I don't know whether to change the formalin water the clown is in to new salt water and treat with hypo, or copper, or just give up. I really want to save my tang. I've done a ton of reading, and basically just got to the point where I have no idea what the best route is. I believe the goby can't be in copper so I'd have to treat the other fish for 2 weeks, then change the water and move the goby in, then let the tank go fallow from that point. Or I can try Hypo, but not sure if thats the best route for the tang. If the clown lives will switching it from formalin to copper or hypo be too much?
I'm also freaked out about the QT tank not being cycled, I have to travel for work Mon-Thurs, my husband will do what he can, but daily water changes and monitoring ammonia might be too much.
I haven't slept in days as I'm so stressed about the fact I've already totally messed this up. Please give me some suggestions on the most likely way to save my tang atleast.
PS Display tank has inverts and live rock, so can't treat there.
Should I move some live rock and treat with hypo, would that be enough filtration to prevent ammonia spike? I know the rock would need to be tossed in the end...
Are there any of the vets or petstores in des moines that do fish "boarding" or treatment? I'm really worried about leaving next week, but obviously have no choice...
On top of that I just ran out of salt and don't want to run to DSM again today, will the aquarium salt at Earle May or Wal Mart be okay to use?
Sorry for the rambling, I'm stressed, I've spent several hundred dollars on stuff that doesn't seem to be helping, and I don't know what to do.
Thanks again, Pam

 

I've been soaking food in garlic, and have dosed in the tank a couple times, guess I could try more. I'm afraid my fish is too far into the infestation for it to work..
I don't have a copper test kit yet, is it okay to mix it up and get it started and go get a copper test kit tomorrow, or should I wait until I have the kit? And really 50% every day on water changes, yikes, my husband is going to kill me. I've been buying RO water at the store, is it okay to try tap water, and and use amquel to condition it?
Thanks, Pam

 

What do you think the odds of the tang being okay in the main tank until I get back from my trip Thursday? Probably low? It would be so much better if I could be here during the treatments. Or maybe I should do hypo until I get back, would a couple of pieces of live rock keep the tank stable enough for a few days?

Pam

 

JB,

Point well taken! My husband totally agrees, I'm making him crazy. To try to avoid doing something else stupid, I'm going to leave things as is until tomorrow and then decide what to do. I need a break, and hopefully the fish will be okay till tomorrow, it is still eating, skin looks terrible though.

On a surprising note, the sole surviving clown fish is up swimming normally in the QT tank. Had been swimming vertically or resting on PVC. Definitely NOT getting my hopes up, but maybe he'll pull through. He has no skin sloughing off yet...seems they don't live long once they get to that stage though.

Thanks to all for your suggestions, if anyone else has opinions I'm very interested. I'm still torn on the best course of action, but will decide tomorrow.

Has anyone used stability to cycle a tank? Wondering if it would help in a QT tank too...

Pam

 

I wanted to thank everyone for their suggestions. Especially to Craig for talking me through the hyosalinity process. (I unfortunately couldn't find a refractometer even remotely locally, will order one, but was afraid to wait for that to come, and then the slow decent on the spg...not sure how many more days my poor tang has)
I also emailed with Bob Fenner a couple of times and he recommended Quinine Sulfate. I have some arriving tomorrow. I will be treating in my main tank (not the ideal, but also not too bad, have to remove snails, crabs can stay, filter bed should not be affected). This allows me to treat while out of town next week and not worry about an ammonia spike in the QT while my husband is "fish sitting".
The little clown did not survive. Most definitely not ich like the tang has, looked like Brooklynella, and based on rapid progression I'm assuming thats what it is. Will be very careful if and when I re-introduce clowns, fear the rest might suffer the same fate. I may run a 20 gallon just for the clowns since they are one of the only fish I "really" wanted.
Anyhow, just wanted to give an update. I will post an update on how things come out in the long run. This most definitely sucks, and I know its my own fault for not running a QT tank. Definitely not an error I'll make again.
Take care, Pam

 

Craig,

Scary on the hydrometer, I'll definitely be ordering the refactometer.

Eric,

I know on their site the recommendations are a bit inconsistent. However when he emailed me he said he does not like copper for tangs or clowns, and treats with QS for those. His recommendation was that I use the QS in the QT tank, but when I explained I'd be out of town and thus unable to monitor ammonia spikes in the non-cycled QT tank he agreed that treating in the display tank didn't pose too much risk if I removed the snails (Kills mollusks instantly.) It should be here by 4:30, here's hoping it works!

I did set up the QT tank on Wedensday, am currently sterilizing it as I used it to treat the clowns with formalin, will then set it back up and get it cycled as I will most definitely be qt'ing any fish I get from this point forward. I have my snails and cleaner shrimp in a seperate rubbermaid with a HOB filter, heater, and some live rock that I'm hoping keeps it cycled enough for them (used system water). Also bought stability to put in there to try to help.

I'll update everyone when I get back from Charlotte Thursday. (Fish will still be cared for, my husband is home, he's just not as obsessive as I.)

Pam

 

Just wanted to give everyone an update on the use of Quinine Sulfate for Ich in my display tank. Administered the meds on Saturday afternoon. By Sunday afternoon most of the spots were gone. I left on Monday, and just got home this am. The fish, including the tang all ate each day when my husband fed. Activity level has not been quite normal, but have had to leave the lights off with this medicine due to the fact it is photosensitive. As of today my Tang looks 100% normal, and I have the lights back on, and will do a water change tomorrow. There do not appear to have been any ammonia spikes, etc. The hermit crabs are still moving around fine. (Snails and cleaner shrimp were moved to a QT tank) I'm going to email Bob Fenner today to see if I should do a second treatment course after the water change.

I'll let everyone know what the long term outcome is as well, but I'm very relieved that my tang is back to his gorgeous self, and I hope his recovery is a long term thing.

Pam