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Advice? ich treatment

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jayt, Aug 23, 2015.

  1. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    I have a some fish I'm going to be adding to my tank in the next few months, I looked into the seachem paragard but I can't be home to dose daily, without getting a doser are there other options I can use or just buy a doser?
     
  2. Angus

    15
    Gilbertville IA
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
  3. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    I'd like to know exactly how this treatment works. Ich is a hotly debated subject just about anywhere it's brought up. The claims made by this product seem to be kind of "magic bullet"ish. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not slamming on the product, just setting the stage for a discussion. Because I think other product have made similar claims and been torn apart.

    A quick google search revealed a few such stabs like "it's snake oil" etc. And a disclaimer by the manufacturer that it won't work on 2 specific strains of Ich as pointed out in this thread (warning - it's a dissatisfied customer)

    No Sick Fish Ich treatment

    The tried an true method of QT and copper, 2 tank method, freshwater dips, fallow tank, etc are the ones that we know work. Maintaining a stress free environment and feeding quality food & variety is very key. Ich is like the flu or a cold. Some fish will carry it but never really get infected. Some say it is pretty much impossible to eradicate, at least, some strains can be. The organism can actually encapsulate in the gills and withstand copper treatment. This is similar to the way that mold can survive straight bleach treatment (which is why you don't spray straight bleach on mold)
     
  4. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    Currently they have been sitting in a qt for about a month and have shown no signs at all. They all came from an established tank, I just want to make sure they aren't carrying anything. I like the seachem paragard but am unable to dose every day like label says. I can get a doser but was wondering about options that might work for my schedule.
     
  5. abower Well-Known ReefKeeper

    466
    Ryan, Ia
    Ratings:
    +74 / 1 / -0
    One theory that I have that leads to these products success is miss diagnosis. Sometimes you see a white spec on a fish and panic. So you run to your cabinet of reef safe wizzard positions and put in "crypto be gone" check your tank the next day and the white spec is gone. Aquarist thinks "Wow this stuff is awesome. Worked like a charm." Reality, It was a piece of sand stuck to the fish's slime coat.
     
  6. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    So they never did show any signs of Ich? If not - you're probably good to go. If you don't have to treat - don't

    The least stressful is the 2 tank method IMO. You could still do that, just to make sure.
     
  7. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    They came from an established tank and have been happily in my 40 gal for a month while my dt fallows. I just wanted to play things safe an make certain they aren't carrying anything
     
  8. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    They came from an established tank and have been happily in my 40 gal for a month while my dt fallows. I just wanted to play things safe an make certain they aren't carrying anything. Do I need to add anything doing the 2 tank method of just fresh water and filtration?
     
  9. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    If you look up this method, it explains that. You are switching the fish between 2 tanks 3 times at specific time frames which are not long enough for ammonia to build up or anything, so that is not a concern. The purpose is to interrupt the life cycle. Really just a power head and a piece of PVC pipe is all you need.
     
  10. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    Thanks
     
  11. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
  12. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    I read both of those earlier, along with several others. Some people mention use of chemicals and some don't. Was thinking I would get a doser that way I can dose the recommended amount of seachem paragard into my tanks while doing the ttm method.
     
  13. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    Unless I can just dose in my 40 and do them all at once.
     
  14. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    Does anyone know how long ich can survive without presenting it's self?
     
  15. Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

    605
    Coralville, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    @jayt@jayt have you treated them at all on qt?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
  16. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    At this point they have just been under observation while my dt fallows. Was going to do the tank to tank and treat before transferring to dt.
     
  17. Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

    605
    Coralville, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    So why is the tank fallow at this point?

    Maybe I misunderstand, The tank you have is cycling/established, the fish came from an established third party tank.

    You are QTing (as any good reefer who doesnt have hundreds of hundreds of dollars to throw away would) as a precaution. Right?
     
  18. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    I set up my tank, threw in a cuc and corals. So dt is in fallow to kill of anything that might have come from various sources, basically just playing it extra safe. Bought fish from a guy selling out, and am simply try to be cautious and protect my investment
     
  19. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    I would use seachem cupramine. I even use it in freshwater despite copper treatments not being the norm with FW. IME it is quite gentle when used as directed, be sure to use a test kit, and once you reach the correct level you don't need to add it unless doing a waterchange. Just do NOT use it with prime, it will convert the copper to the more toxic form.

    I when I do treatment I put the fish into a new clean tank that has the cupramine added to it. The idea is that there are no "baddies" in the new water, so you can catch the ich right when it comes off the fish - if any. The TTM uses 14 days, that I what I normally run if adding the fish to a cleaned QT tank. It kills quite a bit more than ich too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  20. Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

    605
    Coralville, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    GOTCHA! Then yes, in a QT your QT time is 6-8 weeks (8 is on the safe side, but if you keep your QT temps in the 80's 6 is plenty as well as the extra heat will accelerate the Ich biological cycle.) You should be fine after 8 weeks at max if you have not seen any signs form the fish. Keep in mind Ich is an active ciliate protozoan. It doesn't lay dormant per se, but in its actively feeding trophont stage may elongate its feeding for best survivability laying "dormant" as such. Higher temps will, as stated, accelerate this phase.
    Keep in mind that if you wish to medicate, aside from annihilation with bleach or a heavily caustic acid, Medications are only effective in the free swimming (tomites/theronts) stage. The tomites'/theronts' metabolism is also temperature-dependent, but they must find a host within a very few days or perish: at 68°F none survived after 55 hours, according to the pioneer expert in fish diseases Wilhelm Schaperclaus. So it stands to reason that at higher temps the life cuycle can be cut short with a fallow tank in only a matter of hours. However with that being said, you still want to wait out a fallow tank through an entire 6 week cycle. The gelatinous thin-walled cyst can't survive being completely dried out, an incentive to let your nets dry out completely, if there is Ich anywhere among your tanks.
     

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