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kh is constantly dropping....getting frustrated

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Salty, May 17, 2012.

  1. Salty

    Salty

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    So I need some advice.  My KH is constantly dropping, but other params seem fine.  I bought a big ol bottle of KH buffer and adding the max recommended dosage daily, as not to raise it too fast.  The best that will do is keep it where its at or just slightly raise it temporarily.  When I don't dose everyday, my levels drop.  Every time i test, they are lower.  Right now it is at 6 which I know is definitely not good, and I can't seem to get it above 7.  Yes, water changes will increase it, but only for a few days.  Using RO/DI water which tests at 0 kh, but at 12 after adding reef crystals.  I was even doing them weekly for a while to try and raise it.  It helped, but that is waaay too much work and too expensive.  I am really started to get frustrated because all the related levels seem fine (mg, ca, ph).  Anybody experienced this and/or know how to fix it?
    I would really appreciate any advice as my corals have stopped growing and coralline is fading away and I don't know if it related but have been battling a cloudy film on glass that films over daily after cleaning.
    Specs/Params
    Calcium - 440
    Magnesium - 1,350
    pH - 8.0
    Nitrate - 0
    Phospate -.01
    Temp - 78
    Salinity -1.025
    72 gal w/ 30 gal sump w/cheato & miracle mud, 2 carbon filters, and phospate media
    100 lbs live rock
    2-3" sand bed
    average fish stock
    numerous softies of all kinds
    Thanks!!!
     
  2. Lee

    Lee Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Have someone else test your water and see if they get the same results. One of the three (Ca, Kh, Mg) might not be testing correctly and be out of balance.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty

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    Yeah I thought the same thing so I have tested with multiple different test kits for each and seem to get similiar results.  You are right though, I should probably do that anyways.  Thanks!
     
  4. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Does the tank have any lps or sps in it?
     
  5. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
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    I would look into something like kalk, or 2 part dosing.
    I went with 2 part dosing using BRS dosing pumps controlled by my APEX. Pretty simple and once dialed in keeps the levels nice and consistent.
     
  6. Salty

    Salty

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    Yes, numerous LPS', only a couple SPS.
    LPS - multilple Duncans, acans, hammers, frogspawns, huge gonicopia, one small brain coral/favia?, alveopora, candy canes, torch


    SPS - only a coupl frags - Green digi, whats left of a birds nest, and what kinda looks like a fuzzy horn?
    also TONS of mushrooms, rics, and a giant forest of pulsing zenia, and anthelia
     
  7. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    If the tank has none or very little calcium based corals id be concerned with where its disapating. Realistically the "big three" have very little importance in the health of soft corals. Personally id be concerned with the test kits. If the coals aren't pulling it from the water nothing should be pulling it, id stop dosing for a few weeks and get the water tested by another reefer and see how things look. If the test you have is wrong and you continue to dose thongs may go bad pretty fast....that may be why the coals have stopping growing and the coraline seems to be suffering
     
  8. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Do any of your sps look light in color or seem to have a new glow to them?
     
  9. Salty

    Salty

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    Sounds great, I dont have any dosing pumps/controllers though....I should probably get something.  I dose kalk manually, but thats a joke trying to keep up with it....also seems to raise only ca, not much for alk and my ca is already pretty steadily high from 440-460 usually, since I dont have much SPS I assume.  Seems like when I do dose, my corals get pissed at me.
    Any suggestions for cheaper auto dosing pumps/methods?  I dont have ATO either. 


    Thanks for all the good replies guys!  This is my first "help" post.
     
  10. Salty

    Salty

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    glaspie69....yes kind of.  The green digi has gotten lighter, but I have only had it about a month and never had much success with SPS' so it didn't seem odd to me...plus my formely great tenant flame angel has become not so great as he likes to nip at it...nothing else, just it.  The fuzzy horn looking thing (haha I obviously dont know my sps well) has been consumed by the massive zenia forest, I need to dig it out to get a good look at it.
    Are you on to something?
     
  11. Salty

    Salty

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    glaspie, missed your second post.  The ca does not dissapate, that is why I dont like dosing anything with ca.  It stays high naturally, just the kH is dropping.
     
  12. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Now i could be completely wrong so take this with a grain of salt. It's hard to throw an answer out without seeing or knowing the whole situation. I would venture to bet that something is haywire with your test kits or testing methods. It's been my experience that when sps are over dosed with alk they lighten and almost lose there base color and turn a brighter almost glowing kind of color. If it were me I'd stop dosing for a few weeks and see what comes about, it sounds odd that your levels are all normal except your alk, i'd go with one or two points but not 6 or 7. And with the amount of calcium based corals you have I can't see how or why you'd just be loosing the alk, if the corals were sucking it up you'd see a decrease in your ca too. Again just a guess
     
  13. Salty

    Salty

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    Yeah, thats what I thought, that if one is consumed, the other should too. Seems the general consensus is that I need to get water tested by a third party. I will try that. Should I just take some to the LFS? I have always tested myself. Also, wont the ph be off from water in a closed container until I get to the LFS? Or should I not worry about ph and just see what they get for kh and ca? Out of all my testkits pH seems to be the only one that seems possibly inaccurate so I am curious about that one.
    Thanks again for your help, I need to quit trying to figure everything out on my own! /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif ...its stressful and expensive
     
  14. glaspie69

    glaspie69 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Im not sure what part of the state your in but if you can make it to a local shop i would. Just make sure there not using the same brand test kit that you have.
     
  15. Salty

    Salty

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    Im in Des Moines so I would probably just head up to Adams or IPF. I'll try one of them and let you know what I find out
     
  16. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
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    I would do as glaspie suggested and double check that your tests are indeed accurate. If they come back with the same results then start looking further into some type of dosing routine.
    I believe the important thing about dosing is consistency. Checking parameters and dosing the same time every day. Don't try to make rapid changes in the parameters. Dosing the correct proportions. That is why I went with dosing pumps on my controller. Another option is putting dosing pumps on simple timers. Run it a couple times through out the day instead of one big dose.
    When I started dosing on my tank my calcium was at normal levels and my alk was low. Once I got the alk in check I was able to start dosing both calcium and alk portions at the same rate and everything held steady.
    You could also get an ATO, they are great anyway, to dose kalk. I don't have any experience with it so I can't go into much more detail than that LOL.
     
  17. adampottebaum

    adampottebaum Experienced Reefkeeper

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    I may have missed it, but what test kits are you testing with? Make sure it says specifically salt water alkalinity.

    Also, ate you running any bio pellets or dosing vodka, vinegar, or other carbon source?
     
  18. Salty

    Salty

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    Yeah Im going to try that and see what they come up with.  I dont really like dosing at all besides a little purple up every other day, which Ive cut back on while trying "kent pro buffer dKH" to raise the kh.  I try to keep everything as natural as possible and do water changes as much as possible (which is why prob why ive never had great sucess with sps, but I mainly have LPS anyways).  I would probably appreciate dosing better if I do set it up on a slow steady dose, been meaning to get into the whole autodose thing anyways.  sounds like you started in a similiar situation.  Thanks
     
  19. Salty

    Salty

    165
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    They are saltwater.  I test with Salifert, but bought new API to test with as well to verify any questionable tests, especially the kH.  But both seem to be pretty close in everyting but ph, I swear it is different everytime I test, but I dont do a good job of testing it at the same time of day, which Ive heard you should.
    I do not run pellets (was actually getting ready to until this whole low kh issue), no vodka or vinegar.  does phosban in a filter sock in the sump affect it maybe? only carbon source is from 2 emporer bio-wheel filters in the sump with carbon filters (bio-wheels removed of course).
    btw...I added FIJI mud to the sump about 3 mos ago, been battling low kH for about a month now...could this be related? if anything, that should increase it right?  cant think of any other recent changes really
     
  20. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

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    You dose purple up evry other day. That stuff is just calcium. You may want to check cal mag and alk I guess what i am thinking is you may be percipitating your alk
     

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