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Help!! lets do a little experiment

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Armydog, Aug 21, 2015.

  1. Fence13 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Des Moines
    Ratings:
    +300 / 1 / -0
  2. Armydog

    Armydog Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +738 / 8 / -0
    Marine environment is the salt i can get.

    I ordered 6 bottles of the marine environment supplement which will add to the biosea marine mix
     
  3. Armydog

    Armydog Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +738 / 8 / -0
    Theres definitely more in depth qualities in salts other then what will be tested like what was done by AWT
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
  4. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    Also keep in mind that at any time manufactures can change the salt mix and it probably does vary somewhat between lots as they switch source lots of raw materials. I would look at older tests without holding too much value in the results with the longer the test was ago, the less likely the results are to be valid.

    IMO If possible, bring unopened salt and make the entire batch before testing. Too much settling and absorbing water occurs to get good results from say making 5g water from a 160g bucket of IO. Need to make the entire 160 gallons with the water weighed out. Then look at salinity.

    I also think that you should look at either salinity for the box OR amount of ca, alk and mg and mix the brands to the same SG if doing that. Since salinity directly impacts those levels the brand that mixes to the highest SG will automatically have higher levels.

    Personally it really annoyed me when using ESV that it mixed up to such a low SG when following their directions. For such and expensive mix that is made for reef use, not fish only, I found it dishonest that it mixed so low. However it was nice when I tested it with triton and posted on reef2reef the president of ESV changed the formula after I shared the results with him and they used a couple independent labs to verify.
     
  5. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    That's always a good feeling. I had that once, I managed to kill off an entire tank of guppies and mollies when I recharged a bag of Purigen (100mL on a 10G tank) and bottomed out the pH (to 4.0). I brought it up to them, detailed exactly what I did, and they verified it, then changed the label instructions regarding the rinsing procedure.

    Yes, the analysis posted on Reef Central is over 7 years old, and if you read that whole thread (only 4 pages) there are a lot of questions about it.

    Would be ideal

    I think the purpose of this experiment however is to get a wide variety of results under all kinds of different conditions. Almost anti-scientific if you will. See what the hobbyist actually sees.

    Have people just go about their business, and the next time they do a PWC and mix up a batch of water, take a sample and test it, and record certain things, and post it.

    Then we can gather up all the data over a period of time and maybe do some normalization and come up with what we all see in the real world. If you have enough samples, you'll probably come up with at least some level of useful information, and show at least some kind of trend.

    So I think instead of one person testing one sample of the salt they use, it should be something more wide-spread. Anyone who wants to participate can post their data, something like:

    Salt brand: specify what you are using
    Batch: if you have a way to uniquely identify the batch you are using, post that. Or just call it "A" and when you get a new supply, "B", then "C" etc.
    Source water: RODI (not if it's not)
    Temp: shoot for 76F but in reality, no way to be sure when it's just a sample
    Salinity: record how much you have to add to get the salinity you require
    Mixing time prior to sample taken: hours

    Then test:
    Salinity
    Alk
    Cal
    Mag

    List what kits you use and how familiar you are with them (i.e. can you get consistent results)

    I think that's all we are caring about, yes?

    People can post their results after every time they mix up a batch of water if they want to. The more the better
     
  6. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    I just wanted to bring up those points for people to consider in the back of their minds before they jump to conclusions about the results. The amount of testing and data points would have to be extreme before I would put faith in any results. Honestly I don't think multiple people using different brands of test kits will produce results that anyone should use to choose salt brands. Any results or trends you might see imo would not be real, although it might appear so. There is a great deal of error even in the best hobby test kits.

    It sounds like a fun club activity, but I just want to caution folks about reading too much into the results. If you're really curious send samples of entire batches to triton along with RO/DI source water. But once again that only gives accurate results for right now and the lot tested. No clue when the formula will change.
     
  7. Armydog

    Armydog Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +738 / 8 / -0
    Can we contact triton to get test results? It would be a great thread in the resource area with all of the results
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
  8. Armydog

    Armydog Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +738 / 8 / -0
    Maybe the club can purchase some for this purpose then also do it as a group buy for people that want them for their personal tanks. I personally would be interested in 5 from awt, triton or wherever
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
  9. Armydog

    Armydog Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +738 / 8 / -0
    Maybe get a cheaper rate with buying so many
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
  10. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +615 / 2 / -0
    I totally agree with you. With no control, all you get is a bunch of numbers that no one can say it accurate or not accurate. And I think there are alot of people that would/might jump to conclusions based on the results.
     
  11. GoodGreef Well-Known ReefKeeper

    681
    Clive, IA
    Ratings:
    +239 / 2 / -0
    There was a thread here about a year ago on Reef2Reef that was interesting. It was primarily Reef Crystals and ESV discussed but some other people did Triton tests as well. ​
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
  13. Armydog

    Armydog Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +738 / 8 / -0
    Also learned today after talking to the owner of aquacraft its not 1/2 cup for mixing of their salt the box makes a total150g at 1.026 but you need to add a bit more then a half cup
     
  14. If Triton proves to be too costly I wouldn't be opposed to doing this at the upcoming des moines/ames region meeting if we have an adequate array of brands. I just switched to oceanic and would happily throw that into the mix as well. We could all use the same water source and testing kit?
     
  15. jeremy Acro Addict

    Davenport, IA
    Ratings:
    +836 / 4 / -0
    Triton is $49 a peice. They do doscounts for 3 or more.
     
  16. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    We talked about doing this as a separate meeting at some point, which I think would be a good idea. Kind of a combined session to 1) test different salt mixes and 2) a test kit use/training meeting. I think we should!
     

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