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Help!! Low pH

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mike, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    I know this is generic, but what am I doing wrong with my pH? My pH has dipped to 7.57. I was holding strong at 8.1 and then it just started going down over a few weeks...

    I have lime soda in a reactor going into my skimmer to try to remove co2. And i add kalk to ATO. I can't think of anything else that has changed...

    What is going on?


    Screenshot_20160815-173205.png
     
  2. MadCityReefer

    23
    Madison
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    Try opening your windows?

    Sent from my 0PJA2 via App
     
  3. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    When's the last time you opened a window?
     
  4. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    81 degrees and humidity right now prevent that as an option unfortunately... so it has been a few days since the windows have been opened. Gotta love Iowa weather!
     
  5. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    Crack them open for a bit in the morning or evening when its cool.
     
  6. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    So what do people do in the winter? 30 degree iowa weather and windows open obviously isn't realistic. Is there no real way to keep pH up without windows open?
     
  7. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    I dose kalk like you do but mine fluctuates from 8.3 down to 7.8 or so. I open windows when I can, even if it is just a short period. I try to run my refugium opposite of the dt to help with swings. But they say to not chasee ph
     
  8. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    I dose kalk like you do but mine fluctuates from 8.3 down to 7.8 or so. I open windows when I can, even if it is just a short period. I try to run my refugium opposite of the dt to help with swings. But they say to not chasee ph
     
  9. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Checked probe calibration recently? Anything change in the tank water movement wise that could be attributed to the change? It just seems odd that it was running consistent and then dropped over a day then ran consistently again.
    A refugium and some macro algae running on an opposite light cycle could smooth some things out. But that doesn't help with the question on why it dropped all of a sudden.
     
  10. jayt Well-Known ReefKeeper

    329
    Harpers Ferry, IA
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    Possibly the lime soda to the skimmer is getting bad?
     
  11. aussie Well-Known ReefKeeper

    698
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +174 / 1 / -0
    Baking soda raise it , not sure how or how much but it is all over forums and you should be able to find it on you tube
     
  12. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    So about the comment "don't chase pH". I have heard this mentioned several times in reference to "chasing numbers" in general. And while I understand the concept of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I am not sure I completely understand it here. Don't the corals require a pH of between 8.1 and 8.3 to maximize their growth? And with my pH down below 7.6, isn't it safe to say that this is not a "healthy tank"? I do get the whole "don't nit pick" over numbers, but to me it seems like those numbers are there to tell you what you should aim for, and if something is quite a ways off, do what needs to be done to correct it, yes?

    As far as "what has changed" - I have increased the lighting in the tank. Would this have any kind of bearing on the pH levels? And when I say increased, I don't mean duration per day - just the intensity of the lighting. Also, I have started to have a bit of a cyano breakout as of late. Perhaps the presence of this bacteria is lowering the pH? Just trying to think of anything that has changed.

    I do have a refugium going, and I keep the lights on opposite my display lights (or at least with little overlap). The only plants that I have in the refugium are chaeto algae.

    My probe is a fairly new pH probe from Atlas Scientific. I have not as of yet tried to recalibrate it. I suppose that is possible, but seems unlikely as it is only supposed to be recalibrated once per year and it has only been used for a few months.

    We try to open the windows when we can. What other suggestions do people have? DO I perhaps need a kalk reactor? Thinking perhaps that the solution is becoming unstable of settles too much before it gets mixed into my tank?
     
  13. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Corals will do best at certain parameters, yes. If I remember you did not have a whole lot for corals yet. And I don't think you had many stony corals, especially SPS for you to worry about maintaining those strict levels.
    A lot of the times when people chase numbers on a newer tank they end up dosing something that throws another parameter out of whack, and creates even bigger swings than if things were just left alone. Stability will usually have better results than an optimum number. Now that doesn't mean in time you can't slowly work towards that optimal number, but that typically comes when systems become more stocked with stony corals and dosing to maintain all the elements becomes necessary.

    As far as your pH I would say the lighting change and the cyano that appeared could be the reason for the drop. I'd have to look, but I bet cyano has an effect.

    How are your calcium and alkalinity levels. If those are low and your corals are utilizing those then you may need to look at dosing or a kalk reactor. I wouldn't put one on specifically to raise the pH though.
     
  14. GoodGreef Well-Known ReefKeeper

    681
    Clive, IA
    Ratings:
    +239 / 2 / -0
    How are your nitrite and ammonia levels? I've found mini-cycles from any kind of die off (snails etc) can lower pH until its processed out of the system.
     
  15. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    From doing a little reading it sounds like the cyanobacteria may be more an effect from the lower pH and not a cause.

    Do you have a test kit for alkalinity? Any way to run your skimmer intake outside? Some people have done that to help low pH.
     
  16. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    Good info for Mike, David!!

    Mike, just make sure you are not using the kalk to try to raise the pH :0) If pH is such a concern, you can always run a CO2 scrubber. PH is effected by an increase in co2 so if there are people, pets, etc. in the fishroom, expect some drifting of pH. Are you getting good surface agitation? I also run coralife luft pumps in our systems to get micro-nano-sized bubbles. It will help with increasing oxygen levels, exporting detritus, and more. Place a limewood airstone near the return's intake and the bubbles will be shredded more before going into the tank. You can run it after lights out and until the lights come on. If you are not annoyed with microbubbles during the photoperiod, it can run 24/7/365. If you do the bubbling, place the air pump off the floor, in an area where it will get fresh air(freshest air).;)
     
  17. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    I forgot this. I know you said the probe is new(er) but have you checked it? Needs cleaning? Tip and junction both submerged? Have you tried a slope and offset calibration? A probe can change its reading pretty easily so if it had a chance to dry when doing a WC, that can change the reading....
     
  18. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    I have checked the probe - doesn't appear to be an issue there...

    I had some old carbon media that hadn't been changed forever - that couldn't have been helping. So I bought a BRS dual GFE reactor and installed that with carbon and GFE. I also changed out the media in my CO2 scrubber (it shouldn't have been old but you never know). Those two things combined seemed to have helped. I am up to 7.78. Still not great, but better than 7.51.

    I did built myself a kalk reactor too. I am going to be using that in conjunction with my ATO. Previously I was just dumping kalk powder into my ATO, but I don't think that was really helping much as it would all settle and over time just go bad. So this should make a difference too. I am hoping to have it up and running tonight. I have it built - I just need to modify some C++ code in my controller to get it working.

    As far as the cyano causing me grief, I wouldn't be surprised if that is contributing to the problem, but am not sure what else to do to get rid of it. I am hoping that the GFO reactor may help with this as my understanding is that it can reduce phosphates which help spread the cyano (although if I am wrong on this assumption let me know!) I ordered a phosphate tester and am hoping it shows up today...
     
  19. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    I have a Hanna pH/EC/TDS combo checker if you want a 2nd validation on the pH, I need to calibrate it and my calibration solution is a bit old but it's worth a shot

    7.8 isn't bad, 7.5 isn't great...I think the changes you made should help

    pH usually goes up when the lights are on, so increasing the intensity I believe should have resulted in a pH rise, not a drop, so that is very odd.
     
  20. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    I would always welcome a second set of eyes and second validation that my probe is working right. :)

    I am pretty new to the world of reef keeping, so it wouldn't surprise me if I am making a rookie mistake!

    Another thing that I find a little odd is that my salinity keeps dropping. When I do a water change it is usually around 35ppt, and in the last 10 days it has dropped to about 32.5ppt. Not a huge deal, but I just find it off. Yes my protein skimmer does pull a bit of water out and is replaced by RODI water from my ATO, but I wouldn't think that it would cause that much of a difference. My sump does get a little salt splash build up, but I still wouldn't think that much? It is a pretty small tank (65 gallon + 29 galloon sump) but that is still more of a dip than I would expect... I would guess my skimmer has pulled out maybe 2 gallons of water in 10 days?
     

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