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Help!! Low pH

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mike, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Actual water volume would probably be more like this:

    65 less glass (they measure on the outer dims, not the actual inside volume) = 55g
    55g less rock (maybe 5g displacement or more) = 50g
    Sump = 29g but at operating level it's likely more like 15 or so

    50 + 15 = 65g

    Salt content is a simple linear equation so if you have 65g @ 35ppt, 65x35 = 2275 (not a relevant number just a reference figure, I would just call this "total salt), if you were to take out 2 gallons of water in one shot then you would do 63x35 = 2205 (this is your new "total salt") and now add 2g RODI so you take 2205/65 (your new water volume with the second "total salt") and you get 33.92ppt. So the answer mathematically is there is no way that you dropped your salinity by 2.5 just by removing 2 gallons - even less chance that this happened incrementally over 2 days, because that would drop it less.

    For you to drop 65g from 35 to 32.5 gotta do the math backwards now...you would have to replace 4.65 gallons of 35ppt water with RODI in one shot.

    Now if you are using a standard refractometer, you have a margin of error. Luckily I have a Milwaukee meter too...
     
  2. MadManMadrid Well-Known ReefKeeper

    440
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +158 / 4 / -0
    Milwaukee for the win!
     
  3. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    I am using a digital salinity probe from Atlas Scientific that monitors it 24/7. Here is a 10 day history of the readings (disregard the major drop on the 14th - there was an air bubble caused by my protein skimmers water outlet)


    Screenshot_20160818-125818.png


    I do occasionally get abnormal readings which is the random spikes/drops, but you can see how it has dropped about 2ppt in 10 days. I haven't removed any water other than the 2+ gallons from my skimmer. Very strange as I wouldn't expect it to fluctuate quite that much?
     
  4. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Hmmm...now that is better data - I would say if you take a starting point of more like 34.5 and a drop to 33

    So here is the equation that you would use to solve for volume given that data

    (x-2) * 34.5 = x * 33

    Or more generally

    (system_volume - (removed_volume)) * starting_salinity = system_volume * ending_salinity

    solving for system_volume x = 2 / (1 - (33/34.5)) = 46. That doesn't sound right, unless you have a ton of rock and very little in the sump when operating...
     
  5. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    To get that equation to work out to x=65, your removed_volume would have to be 2.8 gallons, does that sound more accurate?

    PS

    << nerd
     
  6. Mike

    132
    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    2.8 gallons may be possible. Do you think over 10 days that ~2ppt swing is a problem? I could always add a little salt into my ATO to try to compensate? Or do you think that this gradual droppage over time is acceptable?
     
  7. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    It would really have to be more than that actually, because if you take that equation and then break it down daily with the starting ppt and ending ppt and 65g for the system volume and solve for removed_volume, then add all those up, you'll end up with a bigger number. I think.
     
  8. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    RV = SV - ((SV*ES)/SS)

    For 8/10 SS = 34.5, ES = 34.333

    8/11 ES = 34.166
    8/12 ES = 34
    etc

    It looks like on avg it's dropping 0.5ppt every 3 days, so 0.167/day

    RV 8/10-11 = 65 - ((65*34.333)/34.5) = .314g
    RV 8/11-12 = 65 - ((65*34.166)/34.333) = .316g
    RV 8/12-13 = 65 - ((65*34)/34.166) = .315g

    So for those 3 days, 0.945g x 3 = 2.835 over 3 days, but that daily number is just going to keep increasing

    RV 8/13-14 = 65 - ((65*33.833)/34) = .319
    RV 8/14-15 = 65 - ((65*33.666)/33.833) = .321
    RV 8/15-16 = 65 - ((65*33.5)/33.666) = .321

    next 3 days 0.961, extrapolate that to 9 days 2.883

    Ok it's not that much bigger...I just needed to keep my mind off my sinuses which are swollen up badly lol
     
  9. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    It could be a combination of the water change and the skimmer. The best way I can describe it quickly is: the RO/DI water should be up to the temperature (which should be the same tempature of your tank) of your tank water before adding the salt. Then after you add the salt, it should mix overnight (unless you are using a premium salt which doesn't take as long to dissolve/mix).

    If the SW actually is on the low end of 35ppm, just a little skimmate can drop it to 34. Then with a couple/few days, the skimmate could be dropping the salinity by 2.

    If you don't want to make a batch of SW, take some RO/DI and make a slurry of salt and the water. Then over the next several hours, add some of the slurry to the sump where it can dissolve before entering the return pump. This works well for me at increasing the salinity (is easier control vs adding salt to the topoff).
     

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