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Lowest cost and easiest way to eliminate green hair, bubble, turf and slime algae from your aquarium

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SantaMonicaHelp, May 7, 2012.

  1. Nik Experienced Reefkeeper

    Windsor Heights
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    I know who it was. Just thought you might have an opinion. I know they are good people thou, so.....
     
  2. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0

    The upflow scrubbers do have their place. They are great for sumpless nanos, freshwater tanks which typically don't have a sump, etc. The advantages are that they are easy to build and set up, they don't dry out on a power outage, among other things. The disadvantage is that you have to deal with bubbles and an air pump, and while bubbles do create random flow immediately surrounding the algae which does break down the boundary layer well and allow for good nutrient uptake, IMO bubble action cannot replicate the water turnover rate of a waterfall scrubber, and thus the UAS does not 'scale up' very well. You would have to pass water very quickly across the screen as well as have bubbles, and the more water you pass across the more the bubbles mix in and now you have to disperse the bubbles. So one solution creates another problem.


    I did see one submerged scrubber that I saw that had potential using the bubbles technique that looked really good, it was more of a side-flow, had a vertical screen in a chamber that had a skimmer type pump blowing water in one end and out a bulkhead on the other, and the screen was held on place on the end and waved back and forth rather randomly like a flag in the wind. Of course with that much flow and that many bubbles, same problem, need bubble traps.


    All in all though, with my somewhat limited experience, combined with the reports of others I have had discussions with is that it works, but has limitation. The limitations I see are what I state above - good for small tanks, not so good for large tanks. One guy at SF that I have been in communication with for several years had built a "Santa Monica 100" for himself (one other guy made one also) and he converted it to a UAS with disastrous results - he converted back to a waterfall and his tank is slowly recovering. Of course who is to say what was done and right or wrong, but the track record of the waterfall scrubber has been that you can build it very poorly and get decent results. I built a rock-star unit for my tank and it has pretty much sucked. Meanwhile I've built 100+ waterfall scrubbers and sent them all over the world and I *rarely* hear a complaint.
     
  3. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    Air Pump Recommendations for UAS® upflow algae scrubbers®. Having bought and tried all of these, here are the best ones:


    Flow (highest to lowest):

    Coralife Super Luft... TONS of flow for multiple outlets or multiple scrubbers
    Tetra Whisper 300... High flow if both outlets are combined into one
    JW Aquatic Fusion 700... High flow if both outlets are combined into one
    Tetra Whisper 150... Good flow for one outlet
    Coralife Luft (regular)... Good flow for one outlet


    Noise (most to least):

    Coralife Super Luft... (Loud; vibrates)
    Coralife Luft (regular)... (Vibrates)
    JW Aquatic Fusion 700... Slight vibration
    Tetra Whisper 300... Silent
    Tetra Whisper 150... Silent


    Size: (big to small):

    Tetra Whisper 300... Large
    JW Aquatic Fusion 700... Medium
    Coralife Super Luft... Medium
    Tetra Whisper 150... Medium
    Coralife Luft (regular)... Small


    Cost (most to least):

    Coralife Super Luft
    Coralife Luft (regular)
    Tetra Whisper 300
    Tetra Whisper 150
    JW Aquatic Fusion 700

    Overall winner for a single UAS scrubber used at home: JW Aquatic Fusion 700 (also is the only one with adjustable flow )
    Overall winner for multiple UAS scrubbers if noise if ok: Coralife Super Luft
     
  4. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    1982: The original dump-bucket style algae scrubber (works, but very hard to build, install, operate, and harvest)

    2008: Waterfall style algae scrubber (works good but hard to build and install; must be removed to harvest)

    2011: Upflow style scrubber (work goods, easier to build and install on the glass; must be removed to harvest)

    2013: ??? (work great, all 3D growth, easy to build, and instant in-place harvesting without needing to remove anything or turn anything off).
     
  5. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    +0 / 0 / -0

    If anyone has been waiting to build a waterfall or upflow scrubber, we

    will soon be posting plans of the new floating surface scrubber. It

    floats at the top and does not need a waterfall, and it does not shine

    through the glass.
     
  6. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    This thread is beyond odd.
     
  7. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    +0 / 0 / -0

    How to build a floating surface scrubber:


    http://www.algaescrubber.net/P8.jpg



     
  8. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    First 13 days of growth in a floating surface scrubber. This one used four LEDs of 3 watts


    each, 660nm (red), but you could also use a CFL bulb...


    http://www.algaescrubber.net/Surf2-first-harvest-13-days collage-plain.jpg
     
  9. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    +0 / 0 / -0

    [​IMG]



     
  10. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    +0 / 0 / -0

    Even more harvests:






     
  11. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    Phosphate Flow out of Rocks

    Many people, when they get their scrubber running for the first time, get worried when more (not less) algae starts to grow on their rocks. It seems really strange, especially when nitrate and phosphate have gone lower than before. What is happening is that phosphate is coming out of the rocks. Remember, phosphate is invisible, so you can only see the effects of it, and it always "flows" from higher concentrations to lower concentrations (just like heat does).

    Example: If your room is warm, and you put a cold object on the floor, heat from the air in the room will "flow" into the object until the object and the air are the same temperature. Example 2: If you put a hot object on the floor, heat will "flow" out of the object and go into the air in the room, again, until the air and the object are the same temperature. Now suppose you open your windows (in the winter). The warm air in your room will go out the windows, and it will get colder in the room. The object on the floor is now warmer than the air, so heat will flow out of the object and into the air, and then out the window.

    Think of phosphate as the heat, and your rocks as the object, and your windows as the scrubber. As the scrubber pulls phosphate out of the water, the phosphate level in the water drops. Now, since the phosphate level in the water is lower than the phosphate level in the rocks, phosphate flows from the rocks into the water, and then from the water into the scrubber. This continues until the phosphate levels in the rocks and water are level again. And remember, you can't see this invisible flow.

    This flow causes an interesting thing happens. As the phosphate comes out of the rocks, it then becomes available to feed algae as soon as the phosphate reaches the surface of the rocks where there is light. So, since the surface of the rocks is rough and has light, it starts growing MORE algae there (not less) as the phosphate comes out of the rocks. This is a pretty amazing thing to see for the first time, because if you did not know what was happening you would probably think that the algae in the scrubber was leaking out and attaching to your rocks. Here are the signs of phosphate coming out of the rocks:

    1. The rocks are older, and have slowly developed algae problems in the past year.

    2. The scrubber is new, maybe only a few months old, and has recently started to grow well.

    3. Nitrate and phosphate measurements in the water are low, usually the lowest they have been in a long time.

    4. Green hair algae (not brown) on the rocks has increased in certain spots, usually on corners and protrusions at the top.

    5. The glass has not needed cleaning as much.


    Since skimmers, filter socks, etc don't remove any nitrate and phosphate, and waterchanges and macro's in a fuge don't remove much, most people have never seen the effects of large amounts of phosphate coming out of the rocks quickly. But sure enough, it does. How long does it continue? For 2 months to a year, depending on how much phosphate is in the rocks, how strong your scrubber is, and how many other phosphate-removing filters you have (GFO, carbon dosing, etc). But one day you will see patches of white rock that were covered in green hair the day before; this is a sure sign that the algae are losing their phosphate supply from the rocks and can no longer hold on. Now it's just a matter of days before the rocks are clear.
     
  12. Maureen Experienced Reefkeeper

    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +329 / 0 / -0
    I would prefer to pull the screen out of a Turbo Algae Scrubber. It pulls out and you can take it to a sink, scrape it off with a scraper - spatula and put it back in. Looks like the SURF works but I really would rather not dig around in algae with my hands and especially not in my tank.
     
  13. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    Advanced Aquarist Feature Article for December 2013: Coral Feeding: An Overview
    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/12/aafeature


    The picture in the article shows that in the 1000 litre test tank:

    98% of the food particles go to the skimmer when there are 2 coral colonies
    71% of the food particles go to the skimmer when there are 40 coral colonies
    92% of the food particles go to the skimmer when there are 2 coral colonies, when skimming is cut in half
    55% of the food particles go to the skimmer when there are 40 coral colonies, when skimming is cut in half


    "This trade-off between food availability and water quality can be circumvented by using plankton-saving filtration systems, which include [...] algal turf scrubbers"

    "Corals are able to feed on a wide range of particulate organic matter, which includes live organisms and their residues and excrements (detritus)."

    "...bacteria [...] can be a major source of nitrogen."

    "...when dry fish feeds or phytoplankton cultures are added to an aquarium, a part of this quickly ends up in the collection cup of the skimmer.

    "...mechanical filters (which can include biofilters and sand filters) result in a significant waste of food."

    "Detritus is a collective term for organic particles that arise from faeces, leftover food and decaying organisms. Detrital matter is common on coral reefs and in the aquarium, and slowly settles on the bottom as sediment. This sediment contains bacteria, protozoa, microscopic invertebrates, microalgae and organic material. These sedimentary sources can all serve as coral nutrients when suspended, especially for species growing in turbid waters. Experiments have revealed that many scleractinian corals can ingest and assimilate detritus which is trapped in coral mucus. Although stony corals may ingest detritus when it is available, several gorgonians have been found to primarily feed on suspended detritus."

    "Dissolved organic matter (DOM) is an important food source for many corals. [...] scleractinian corals take up dissolved glucose from the water. More ecologically relevant, corals can also absorb amino acids and urea from the seawater"



     
  14. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

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    Great video showing a basic upflow scrubber, similar to a Hang-On-Glass (tm)...


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2021
  15. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    Nutrient Export

    What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.

    So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients come from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.

    Then the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on them consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

    Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crew, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

    So whenever you have algae "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then, there is a problem).

    So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif
     
  16. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    From new to green, in 3 cleanings and 2 LEDs...

    (anyone can build this simple 2-LED scrubber)


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2021
  17. jazzybio13 MBI Breeder

    718
    Ames
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    for the one of the original in tank on the bottom in the back corner designs... what are some of the reflectors that are safe for in a reef?
     
  18. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    You could try plastic mirror, but a sheet of white plastic is just as good.
     
  19. jazzybio13 MBI Breeder

    718
    Ames
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    thanks....
     
  20. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Inactive User

    58
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    What is Periphyton?

    Periphyton is what turns your rocks different colors. You know... the white rocks you started with in SW, or the grey rocks (or brown wood) you started with in FW. After several months or years, the rocks become a variety of different colors and textures. Why? Because the periphyton that has grown on it is a mix of different living things, of different colors, and thicknesses. And the important part is: It is LIVING.

    That's right: The colored stuff that has coated your rocks is all living organisms. Sponges, microbes, algae, cyano, biofilms, and of course coralline. After all, "peri" means "around the outside", and "phyto" means "plant". Ever slipped in a slippery puddle? That's probably periphyton that made it slippery. It's a very thin coating on the rocks, sometimes paper thin.

    There is a lot of photosynthetic organisms in periphyton, and this of course means that they need light; but they need nutrients too (ammonia, nitrate, phosphate). And as you might figure, they will be on the lighted portions of the rocks. And they will grow to intercept food particles in the water, based on the water flow. Just think about how sponges orient their holes for water flow; the micro sponges in periphyton do it too but on a tiny scale.

    What about under the rocks, in the dark areas? Well these periphyton don't get light, so they are primarily filter feeders. So they REALLY grow and position themselves to be able to intercept food particles. And they don't really need to fight off algae, because algae does not grow in the dark, so they have no need for anti-algae tactics like plants in illuminated areas have.

    Reef studies have shown that at certain depths, more of the filtering of the water comes from periphyton and benthic algae than comes from the phytoplankton which filters the deeper water. And in streams, almost all the filtering is done by periphyton. So, what you have on rocks that are "mature" or "established" is a well-developed layer of periphyton; and all the things that comes from it.

    This is why mandarin fish can eat directly off the rocks of an "established" tank (tons of pods grow in the periphyton), but not on the rocks of a new tank. Or why some animals can lay their eggs on established rocks, but not new ones. Or why established tanks seem to "yo-yo" less than new ones. Even tangs can eat periphyton directly when it's thick enough. Yes periphyton can also develop on the sand, but since the sand is moved around so much, the periphyton does not get visible like it does on rocks. So thick periphyton on established rocks is your friend. And totally natural too. Keep in mind though I'm not referring to nuisance algae on rocks; I'm only referring to the very-thin layer of coloring that coats the rocks.

    But what happens when you "scrape the stuff off your rocks"? Well you remove some of the periphyton, which means you remove some of your natural filter and food producer. What if you take the rocks out and scrub them? Well now you not only remove more of your natural filter and food producer, but the air is going to kill even more of the microscopic sponges in it. And what if you bleach the rocks? Well, goodbye all filtering and food producing for another year. It's an instant reduction of the natural filtering that the periphyton was providing.

    However, what if you just re-arrange the rocks? Well, some of the periphyton that was in the light, now will be in the dark; so this part will die. And some of the periphyton that was in the dark will now be in the light, so it will not be able to out-compete photosynthetic growth and thus will be covered and die too. And even if the light stays the same, the direction and amount of water flow (and food particles) will change; sponges that were oriented to get food particles from one direction will now starve. So since the light and food supply is cut off, the filtering that the periphyton was providing stops almost immediately, due only to the re-arranging of the rocks.

    Starvation takes a little longer. The periphyton organisms won't die immediately, since they have some energy saved up; but instead, they will wither away over several weeks. So on top of the instant reduction in filtering that you get by just moving the rocks, you get a somewhat stretched-out period of nutrients going back into the water. And after all this, it takes another long period of time for the periphyton to build up to the levels it was at before: 1 to 2 years. Even changing the direction of a powerhead will affect the food particle supply in the area it used to be pointed at.

    So a good idea is to try to keep everything the same. Pick your lighting, flow, layout, and try to never move or change anything. It's a different way of thinking, but you should have a stronger natural filter and food producer because of it.


     

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