1. Do you have an old account but can't access it?


    See Accessing your GIRS Account or Contact Us - We are here to help!

Advice? Near disaster/plumbing advice

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ShaneP, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. ShaneP Well Known Hawkfish

    473
    Williamsburg, IA
    Ratings:
    +126 / 0 / -0
    it's been a rough few days. Was in Arkansas last week and had a tank sitter, came back last night to an almost dry return section and a mostly exposed heater. Glad it didn't shatter; got that taken care of and my son comes in this morning and says something's wrong with the tank.

    I go downstairs and my display drain had fallen off the bulkhead :confused: and my stand was filled with water. I built it like a tub; caulked the seams and sealed it all so only a small amount of water actually made it to the floor, but alas I can't move the system to properly dry it. There's no puddles, just dampness. It should dry soon. About 4-5 gallons were in the stand. That's scary. :nailbiting:

    The GFCI had tripped since some electrical had submerged. :( Got all I could pulled apart and dried out. I used a hair dryer to be sure.

    I run a Herbie overflow, so that pressure obviously contributed to helping my drain fall off. It's inch and a half vinyl hose to the gate, and vinyl gets brittle and hard after a while. So there's that, and I found my hose clamp had snapped. I'm not really sure as to the actual culprit.

    I now have a heater in the display and all is good; sump water is in the brute and is heated, so things can ride a couple days if needed.

    Anyway, all is cleaned up and dried that I can get to. I went and got the PVC to replumb the return line and drain. The return had a slow salt creep buildup from a couple of joints so while everything is out of the stand it's the best time to do it.

    I'm putting in a manifold to feed a reactor I just got for Christmas and a future ATS, so I need advice with how to orient/plumb this thing.

    I'm so glad this didn't happen earlier. We just got back last night. I have no idea what I'd have done trying to talk someone through all of this.

    This post is now long enough, so I'll get some pics up here in a sec with details on what I'm thinking.
     
  2. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    I'm currently going through a tank makeover myself and I've also decided to add a manifold and an ats, this is what I was planning for my manifold, the return pump comes in on the right the 1" goes to my ATS and I have 3-1/2" to run reactors, but I might switch those to 3/4" if I can find some

    DSC_1448.JPG
     
  3. ShaneP Well Known Hawkfish

    473
    Williamsburg, IA
    Ratings:
    +126 / 0 / -0
    So here's one option. This will be fed off my return. I have plenty of flow in the DT, and these will be used to feed low flow devices. BP reactor and ATS primarily. The third is just there as an option, but I'm not sure I really need it but it's better to have it I think.

    Oriented this way:
    [​IMG]

    Or oriented this way:
    [​IMG]

    I obviously have more room with them facing up, and can mount more securely with C clamps to the stand wall. BUT I don't like the outputs facing up. I just had a hose pop off, if that happens with them facing up water will be everywhere. Facing down and they either go back into the sump or the stand.

    This is a mock up, isn't glued together yet, and things can be trimmed down as needed. What do you guys think?
     
  4. ShaneP Well Known Hawkfish

    473
    Williamsburg, IA
    Ratings:
    +126 / 0 / -0
    Nice. So, will you have some space between your tees? Can the gates close all the way that close?

    I went cheaper and did not get unions. That would be nice though.
     
  5. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    For what it is worth, usually within a year those cheap menards valves are so frozen you cant turn them.

    It is worth the money to get the brs valves. Cepex Ball Valve

    Also, I try to hard plumb everything, just put in a couple unions in case you have to take it apart
     
  6. ShaneP Well Known Hawkfish

    473
    Williamsburg, IA
    Ratings:
    +126 / 0 / -0
    Ok, looks like I need to get the nicer ball valves. I was hoping for a quick fix and to get back up and running tomorrow, but I should just do it right.

    What do you guys think about upward facing outputs?
     
  7. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    i'll be adding some brs red pvc between the Ts and the valves to give some space since space isnt a problem in my set up. I'm hoping i have better luck out of these valves than the menards 1s that are really only about half the price
     
  8. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    as far as your manifold if you can make it work to where the valves are pointed toward the sump i think you're better off in case something does leak or blow off
     
  9. tbraz

    168
    Marion, IA
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    I picked my valves up from Lowes, the 1" run around $11 and the 1/2" were $5
     
  10. Chief Reef Well-Known ReefKeeper

    445
    Cedar Rapids
    Ratings:
    +123 / 0 / -0
    I'm no expert in plumbing by any means but what I did was add an extra valve on my manifold just to be prepared for the future, if i want to add another reactor or what have you, since I change my mind all the time. I think you should orient the manifold to best suit your needs although it is a good idea to point them down, but trust your cementing skills and hard plumbing will most likely outlast the tank. I definitely should have gone the cheaper route since I learned that schedule 80 is major overkill but what can I say: I like consistency. I'm about 90% done, just need to finish the second drain, and glue everything together

    1483349083128-1844528869.jpg
     
  11. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    What size plumbing is that? The setup looks nice with all the cepex valves and sch 80 piping, but I would be concerned about restrictions and pressure loss. It looks like most of the layout has 1" plumbing at some point and then maybe even expands up a size heading to your bulkheads. I would try to stay as large as possible from the pump to the bulkheads only narrowing right before the bulkheads if needed. I'd also recommend supporting that plumbing once it's glued up how you want it.
     
  12. Buku Well-Known ReefKeeper

    597
    Ankeny, IA
    Ratings:
    +202 / 4 / -0
    Here is how I made my manifold. I will be using 3 outputs to run my JBJ chiller, Avast Zeovit Vibe, and my Vertex Calcium reactor. I have an extra if I ever want to add anything. I used true Union valves on it. It's on my 90 they I'm close to finishing up.


    image.jpeg

    image.jpeg
     
  13. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Mine is very similar to t-braz. I used a true union ball valve on the input so I could take the whole manifold off if needed. The valves to control the outputs are just the standard lowes ball valves without unions. Been going for several years now and they still function fine.
     
  14. Buku Well-Known ReefKeeper

    597
    Ankeny, IA
    Ratings:
    +202 / 4 / -0
  15. Chief Reef Well-Known ReefKeeper

    445
    Cedar Rapids
    Ratings:
    +123 / 0 / -0
    Yup I will be supporting the part of the manifold, I just hooked it up for the picture. Both the drains are 1" pipes. Coming from the return is 3/4" and widens to 1" to go back into the bulk heads like you mentioned. So you are saying to change to 1" or bigger as soon as possible coming from the pump so I do not lose pressure?
     
  16. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    How big is the output on your return pump? I would go that size all the way through the system.
     
  17. Chief Reef Well-Known ReefKeeper

    445
    Cedar Rapids
    Ratings:
    +123 / 0 / -0
    The output of the pump is 3/4". In my short experience with plumbing I've learned that the amount of flow coming in is very difficult to get in sync with the flow of the water being returned, if the pipes are the same size. therefore is why my drain is 1" and return is mostly 3/4". If you could send me a pm @blackx-runner@blackx-runner talking about pressure and how that works since I've never heard of it and so we don't get too off topic on this thread
     
  18. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Well I guess you're probably good then. I guess i'm just used to my big external pump. I have a 2" inlet and 1.5" outlet and my plumbing matches that. Yours just looks small, but it matches your pump so you should be fine. I'm not sure how big of an issue it is going up to 1" at the return bulkhead, but you will lose some pressure at that point.
    As for matching flow its actually very simple as long as your drains can handle at least what you are pumping up to the tank. You have valves after the pump and before the return, that's all you need if you don't have a pump with variable speeds.
     
  19. ShaneP Well Known Hawkfish

    473
    Williamsburg, IA
    Ratings:
    +126 / 0 / -0
    Thanks everyone for the input. There's a lot to chew on here. I was helping out my mother in law move some stuff today so not much happened with the tank.

    I think I'm going to mount a board to the front of the 2x4s and make a more convenient place to mount my plumbing. I am going to order nicer ball valves. I like the idea the more I think about it. This will give me more room to work with and I'll like the end result better. It'll also better "aim" the manifold outputs into the sump. Just in case. I'm going to paint the PVC black as well. It'll look really nice when finished.

    So, here's the deal I guess. I think I have the return and manifolds all planned out, but I'm starting to rethink my drain. I accidentally ordered my gate valve for the Herbie overflow a size too big for my drain the first time and used bushings to make it happen. Technically, a Herbie main drain should be smaller than the emergency drain. Well, mine is backwards from that because it's how I originally had my Durso setup. My bulkheads are 3/4" (originally supposed to be the return) and 1.25" for the drain.

    If I switch the main drain to the 3/4" will I run into problems? I'll have the 1.25" drain as a back up, but we always want a bigger output than input so I'm curious to thoughts about this. Maybe I need different bulkheads? A 1" drain and the 1.25" as back up.. Problem is that swapping them out will be a pain I'm afraid. I don't have much room for the wrench given the current stand hole size. I'd maybe need to cut the hole bigger, but there's a full tank sitting above it.
     
  20. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Do you just have 2 drilled holes in the tank and you are using them both for the herbie drain?
    I would think you would be better switching to the 3/4" as your main drain. I think you have more overflow protection using the bigger pipe as the emergency/vented pipe.

    With the 1.25" as the main drain you would have to throttle it down more to tune the return, as compared to the 3/4" and lose that potential to move water in an overflow situation. The valved pipe will essentially be moving the same volume of water no matter the size because of the "tuned" system. A bigger pipe than necessary is a waste.
    With the 3/4" main you would probably be running that one close to wide open to match the return, but you have a huge potential to move water in an overflow if the 1.25 emergency goes to full syphon.

    How many gph are you looking at moving through the sump? The 3/4" drain may limit you. Which may have been your original question. You need to determine if you want more flow, or more safety potential to determine which way to do the drains.

    This might help with your flow considerations.
    How to size full siphon drains? - Reef Central Online Community
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.