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Need help- something is wrong

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kylie, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    I'm not sure what is happening but I think there might be something toxic in my tank that I can't detect with any test. For the past two months, I have had increasing amounts of bubble algae and a little bit of hair algae. It was recommended that I restart running GFO to counteract any phosphates that may be in the tank. So, about a month ago, I cleaned out my old BRS dual reactor and put GFO in one chamber and carbon in the other. About a week ago, I replaced the carbon with biopellets and put in new GFO. The bubble algae has gone down some (possibly because I got two emeralds), the hair algae has stayed the same, and now things are getting worse. All of the fish seem ok but my LPS are deteriorating, especially my brain that I've had for almost a year. About half of his skeleton is showing now and it honestly looks like he is 'melting' as tissue is flaking off. My RBT anemone also has split into three in the past 2-3 days. I've heard thats a sign that something is bad in the tank. My leathers refuse to put out their polyps and some of my zoas are melting also. Others like GSP and a few zoas are open and ok. And my baby hammer and frogspawn have their tissues inflated but I can tell that they are starting to lose their connections with their skeletons. 
    I don't have any water tests as they are expired now. The temperature stays regular about 76-77 but if it gets nasty cold outside, they are along a wall and I can't be sure if it drops a little during the night. I try to feed regularly now. I had been lacking in that the past couple months. But the past 2 weeks I've been trying to feed more frozen foods, including mysis, cyclopese, rotifers, etc so everyone can eat. 
    The only thing I can think of that would be in the tank is possibly chlorine. I used bleach to clean out my ATO bucket and a large 15g tub from walmart that I use for WC's. I let them soak with a very dilute bleach solution for about 10 minutes, then rinsed both out with hot tap water until I couldn't smell anything and dried them out before putting RO water in them. The ATO bucket has an open top and the cats often will drink out of it. There is almost constantly some sort of fuzzy bacteria colonies growing on the bottom of the ATO bucket which may be from the cats mouths.
    Anyway, does anyone have any idea what I should do? I am willing to do pretty much anything to restore my system to health and I've thankfully been fortunate lately and have money to spend on the tank. 
    Please please let me know if you have any ideas on what I should do. I could increase water changes, get another reactor specially to run a lot of carbon, possibly put some conditioner in the water to counteract any chlorine that may be in there. If those seem like good ideas, please let me know. Otherwise, if you have anymore ideas, I'm all ears!!
    Thanks, sorry about the book. Hope you can help,Kylie
     
  2. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Sorry to hear about your issues. I would get some test kits first and see if you can find anything out of whack that you could concentrate your efforts on. Did you notice everything going downhill after you added the biopellets? If so I would take them back out of there. Don't know what the problem could be, but its sounding like it something in the new changes you made. Then due some frequent, large water changes. I've never heard of doing water changes with good fresh saltwater causing issues so it should be a safe bet.
     
  3. saltwaternewbee

    saltwaternewbee Inactive User

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    Did you let the containers completely air dry before putting water in them or dry them with a towel? I was told by another reefer to air dry. Not sure.
     
  4. pwfish

    pwfish Well-Known ReefKeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    328
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    +49 / 0 / -0
    1+ on the water change, I would do a 20% water change, and then get some test kits to see if your water parameters are correct. Based on the corals symptoms the nitrates and alkalinity are probably off, high nitrates and low alkalinity . I don't think the bleach is your problem, but I wouldn't use it to clean out your ATO bucket. Not sure why you are getting fuzzy bacteria colonies in your water, but I would put a cover on it or get a new bucket.
     
  5. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Thanks everyone. I'll try all of that n get back with some numbers
     
  6. Bela

    Bela Inactive User

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    I didn't see it mentioned, but I would get some carbon going is well. That's probably the first thing (since it's fastest IMO) I would do when suspecting some sort of unwanted chemical is in the tank, the second being water changes, of course. The corals that are not attached to rocks you could also try dipping, if you have soemthing like coralrx around the house. According to the directions though, it is not recommended to be dipping nems at all.
     
  7. Charlie B

    102
    Waukee
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    How much GFO did you use? I have seen some post on nano-reef that if you are putting too much in too quickly the phosphates drop so fast the corals etc don't react well.
     
  8. iaJim

    iaJim Inactive User

    775
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    Did your problems start when you started feeding the frozen foods? Was everything ok prior to that?
     
  9. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

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    something I would check is your alk. My understanding is when running GFO it will drop your alk drastically
     
  10. phishcrazee Experienced Reefkeeper

    Riverside
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    I would get new test kits and try and figure out what's out of whack. Use the old ones for now even if they're expired; they're usually still fine for awhile from my experience. You can always double check things once you get a new kit. I know you were using green water in your tank, at tank tour time anyways; when did you stop with that? I wonder if you had a *bad* batch somehow? You had said you were getting algae issues after starting that, so it makes me wonder if you were adding phosphates into the tank when you added it.........Algae is living off of something obviously, either nitrates, phosphates or both.....the quickest way to get rid of those is with water changes.
    Did you notice a change when you started using the LED's?
    Are you 100% sure of your RODI water quality? When did you last change filters/resin? I know CV Bay sells ready-made saltwater (probably the other places do too) if you want to do some faster water changes and not have to bother with mixing up more SW.
    Good luck figuring it out. It's hard to watch things deteriorate like that :/
     
  11. fishyness

    fishyness Inactive User

    596
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    +5 / 0 / -0
    I have some test kits you are welcome to. Also have alot of cyclops type foods for corals you are also welcome to. I am seeing great results from a varied diet, in a 7 day period the tank doesnt see the same food.  works for me anyways.....wish you luck....anything I can do let me know....[​IMG]
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,821 / 14 / -0
    I heard this (on here) but bleach is perfectly OK to use on anything in the tank as long as you dry it out afterwards. Bleach starts as salt and ends as salt, so anything you bleach just dry it out completely and it's fine (I believe that came from Kirk Embree @ Central Campus). So I doubt that's it.

    One thing I've read about bio-pellets is that it can cause a big boost in the bacterial colony which can be bad if it's not done right (which is why you need an oversized skimmer if you run BP IIRC)

    Corals need some N and P, especially LPS, frogspawn, hammers, leathers, anything 'meaty' like that prefers 'dirtier' water than the SPS (at least that's the current philosophy, which I don't necessarily agree with). Running a system completely devoid of N and P will not necessarily be successful. The fact that you're running GFO and biopellets and still have algae (do you?) means something is not right. The algae is still finding a way to fix it's nutrients.

    still though, hard to say exactly what's going on. Sounds like you've made quite a few changes recently, every change you make means your tank could need to adjust to a new 'set point', and changing one thing after another could be throwing things out of balance. Even changing flow in an established system can cause a significant die-off of bacteria and cause a mini-cycle, detectable or not....
     
  13. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Thanks everyone. I think I may have made a bad choice with the biopellets. Im going to do some wc's, trade the pellets for carbon and try feeding a variety on a more regular basis. As well as get some test results.
     
  14. Big Country

    Big Country Inactive User

    149
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    How is your skinner? I just put an order in for bio-pellets, but may hold off on using them. Sounds like the bio pellets help grow bacteria to use nutrients then the skimmer removes the nutrient laden bacteria...
     
  15. Reeferforlyfe

    Reeferforlyfe Inactive User

    655
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    +1 If you start at your recommended dose of GFO for your first run, that is a no no!!! You should really take it slow when first introducing gfo and carbon into the system.. BRS has a guide for this..
     
  16. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    If you think there's chlorine, use a dechlorinator Kylie. You can also throw in a PolyFilter. Feed the corals and make sure they are getting the Par they need. It could be several things as stated above but I would do WC's, run carbon, stop the biopellets(at least temporaily until things get better...if you start them again, do so slowly and correctly), use a dechlorinator,polyfilter and feed the corals. Sounds like they may be starving ;-( Good luck Kylie!!
     
  17. B-Rad

    B-Rad Inactive User

    999
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    +0 / 0 / -0
    Kylie, First things first- you need to get you're water tested, Even if you're kits are old they may still give you some insights to where things are off. Take a sample to you're LFS and have them take a look. Also test you're RO water once you get some updated kits, for phos that was were my problem with algae was coming from ( had a bad Membrane).
    If I lived in town I would come and test for you!
    Good Luck!
     
  18. IASeascapes

    IASeascapes Inactive User Vendor

    107
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    +1 on the water test. Also check salinity...I might have read over what it's at...but a drop in salinity can cause a lot of these issues with algae/coral deterioration. IF you use a standard hydrometer have it checked with a refractometer. If you use the refractometer check the calibration on it. HTH

    Tim
     
  19. einsteins

    einsteins Experienced Reefkeeper

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    +0 / 0 / -0
    GFO shock...my first guess

    I would turn it off and do some water changes every couple of days using balanced alkalinity and calcium and magnesium.

    A good balance is:
    Calcium 425ppm
    Alkalinity 9.0
    Magnesium 1300ppm
    You can use the calculator Here to find the correct balanced parameters. http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

    Keep carbon going until you get parameters in whack. Then you can start leaching out the PO4 with GFO at 1/4 the recommended dose and ramp up to the full dose over the next month or so.
    You made a couple really drastic changes very quickly and that can have a bad effect many times. sometime worse than what you are trying to fix.

    For now get the main 3 parameters stabilized and monitor closley, go light on feeding the tank..... this should save the corals and then we can re-attack the possible nutrient issue.

    Hope that helps!

    Bill

     

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