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Phosphate test kit

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jstngates, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0

    I Currently am testing with an API and obviously they're not good for phosphates. What is an more accurate brand?
     
  2. Nik Experienced Reefkeeper

    Windsor Heights
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    Hanah checkers are awesome!! Digital!!
     
  3. RJ

    30
    Marion
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    I recently purchased a hanah phosphate tester and I really like it. Makes me want to switch all my test kits to digital.
     
  4. Lee

    Lee Experienced Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I'm looking at getting the low-range Hannah phosphorus checker. From what I can gather, if you are running a low nurient system, you want to get the phosphorus checker vs the phosphate. Here's a video that talks about some of the differences:







     
  5. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    I like my hanna checker. Mine is not the parts per billion. He really should have wiped off the fingerprints before taking the measurement unless I missed it. Unless you are really dedicated to a ultra low nutrient system I don't know how much more accurate you need than 0.01ppm plus you really need to know the differences between phosphorus and phosphate as most reef articles and guides are based on phosphate.
     
  6. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    IMO, you don't need the phosphorus meter. Phosphate is good enough.
    The alk meter is also very nice.
    Beyond that, the other digital meters aren't worth it. Salifert for potasdium, calcium, nitrate, nitrite, and magnesium. And strontium, if you enjoy 30+ minute test procedures.
     
  7. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Oh yeah..,and I swear by my Hanna phosphate checker. Best purchase ever. Right up there with my Milwaukee salinity meter
     
  8. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    Just bought a phosphate from ACC it's a Hannah. Obviously the ATI doesn't work at all. Everytime I'd do it it would say it's between the 0 and the 0.25. I just did the Hannah and it's saying 0.76. The past 2 weeks I've been using GFO and it was just changed a couple days ago. Do I just be patient and check in another week?
     
  9. Lee

    Lee Experienced Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    If it were me, I would test every couple days. You can also test the output straight out of your reactor to see if it's coming out lower than what your tank is, that helps determine if the GFO has been exhausted.

    Like any parameter, take your time to lower it so you aren't shocking your corals with drastic changes. Corals do need some phosphates (.03 to .05 is usually the target in ultra low-nutrient systems, but people still have a lot of success with levels much higher than that).
     
  10. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    Iy wouldnt be 0 coming out of the reactor would it? Just changed all my ro filters too.
     
  11. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +233 / 1 / -0
    I am an advocate for the Low Range Phosphorus meter made by Hanna. It is a simple conversion to change it to ppm. Take the reading {EX 21} and multiply by 3.066 and then divide by 1000.... 21 * 3.066 = 64.386 / 1000= .0643 ppm Phosphorus is a more comprehensive test than phosphate...do some reading :0) Also, every test kit whether it be digital or not, has a margin of error. If I remember correctly, the LR Phos meter is +/- 5% Run 3 or 4 tests back to back with the same SW, reagents and meter...it will be a different reading 'at least" in 2 of the tests and it's not uncommon for 3 or all 4 being different. What one should do is look for a trend rather than just each individual result. I went to the LR Phos meter because the Phosphate meter always read 0 for my tanks. I knew that was impossible! When I changed to the LR Phos meter, I started showing actual levels of phosphate/phosphorus. Just my opinion and experiences of course :0)
     
  12. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    Hey Sponge, what are the practical differences you found between the two meters when it comes to your tank? I mean when your phosphate is below the detectable range of the LR meter what info do you get to act on with the ultra low range? I know lots of the ULNS folk shoot for phosphate levels that are in the range of the LR meter (.03 to .05) so I am a bit curious when the LR says 0.00 what actions you would take at the parts per billion range. I have thought about getting the ultra low, but when the low range is capable of showing desired concentrations for ULNS and of course when you need better phosphate export I am not sure aside from my personal knowledge, what practical purpose seeing phosphate below 0.00ppm would have on a system.
     
  13. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    I should add that the LR has accuracy by hanna at 0.04ppm last I checked, but in most reviews it is even more accurate. If one is worried about getting really accurate results than several tests should be done, but for me they almost always match the 1st reading if you are careful with the test. IMO user error is the biggest thing to look out for if you see different results.

    They have increased the time before shutoff since this was done.
    http://reefbuilders.com/2010/04/20/hanna-phosphate-checker-review-notable-compromises-still-worth-the-resolution-and-portability/

    Here is a good review and the hanna had great results using a $3,500 machine as the control:
    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/8/review
     
  14. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0

    The procedure for the test process is also very likely a contributor to the margin of error. While I can not say that I have run the test back-to-back several times on the same sample of water, I can tell you that I feel confident enough in the consistency of my process to not have to do so. Here is precisely what I do, and I recommend everyone else with either Hanna P meter do:


    • Fill vial with 10mL of water, measured out using a syringe (not the mark on the vial)
    • Flick side of vial with fingernail several times to get rid of bubbles (iinvert gently if necessary)
    • Use a glass-cleaning cloth (not a microfiber cloth, but the kind that you wipe down your eyeglasses with) to wipe fingerprints off)
    • Take our your packet of reagent
    • It has some air in it, so hold it vertically and use your thumbs and forefingers to move the air bubble around while rotating it so that you loosen all the reagent from the corners of the packet. Turn it 2-3 times while doing this.
    • Pick one corner in which to now force the reagent into. "fwap" the packet with your finger to get the reagent all into that corner
    • Cut both sides of the opposite corner off, along the entire length of the packet.
    • Wiggle the packet open so that the open corner creates a little "spillway"
    • Find a place to set this so that the reagent doesn't dump out while you prepare to use it.
    • The other option is to take an index card and crease it to create a 'V' and dump the reagent on to that. Whatever you do, the point is to be able to do it without wasting time, because you only have 3 minutes before the meter times out and shuts off after calibration (thanks Hanna), and 2 of those minutes are needed for mixing the sample.
    • Get a stopwatch ready, or a 2 minute countdown timer
    • Turn meter on.
    • When it says C1 (or whatever) insert the vial and press button to calibrate to the sample
    • When 'C2' shows, take out the sample, remove the cap, and pour in the reagent. Get it all in - should be easy with the 'spillway' or index card method.
    • Close the vial.
    • Start the timer
    • DO NOT SHAKE - EVER
    • gently rock the vial back and forth. I hold it horiztonal and just tip it about 30 degrees then back the other way 30 degrees. I will occasionally flip it and continue. The reagent WILL dissolve within the 2 mintue time period
    • When the time goes off, tap the vial with your fingertip several times (and invert as needed to clear bubbles stuck to vial)
    • Wipe down with glass cleaning cloth
    • Insert vial into meter and close
    • Press AND HOLD button for 3 seconds until you see the coutdown timer
    • Set your own countdown timer for 3 minutes, just so you don't miss the reading
    • When you get the reading, remove the vial immediately and rinse 10-20 times with hot hot hot tap water. The sooner the better, to prevent staining.
    • Shake excess water off and let dry

    One thing I have noticed is that the meter actually does not take the reading until the 3 minutes are up - so if you are having trouble with the reagent mixing stage and are worried you are too close to the timeout, just press and hold the button to start the timer and get the vial in as soon as possible.


    Following this process closely each time will eliminate a majority of the error, much of which is uder induced.
     
  15. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    I saw a video somewhere that showed the packet cutting process I describe...can't find it now. Might have to just make my own.
     
  16. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,818 / 14 / -0
    Found it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e_EOWAkLTc
     
  17. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    On the 9th it was .76 last night I changed my GFO and tonight phosphates tested at .30. I'm making progress.
     

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