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QT and disease prevention: A poll

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dead fish, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The other day I got an ad from Mr. Saltwater Tank offering a preview of his new guide to treating and preventing disease in tanks. I watched his intro video and was perplexed by what I saw. His recommendation was a pretty stern and stringent regimen of QTing fish. I'm wondering what others think about this process. Below I've put in my thoughts based on my experience, which is limited, but provides an example that's contrary to a lot of the advice that's out there on the Interwebs.

    Please vote in the poll and provide a few thoughts re: your answer in a response to this thread. I'm just super curious as to what people's real-world experience is with QT and the the various marine diseases it's designed to prevent.

    Here's my sure-to-be-unpopular thoughts on QTing fish. If you have the means to do it and do it right, QTing for 4 weeks before adding to a display tank, I figure it can't hurt. I heard a stat that in reality only 10% of aquarists QT their fish. That's a tiny, tiny number compared to how often the topic is discussed on the forums. If you took the amount of discussion and brow beating about QT and parasite profilaxis on the boards, you'd think 90% of aquaritsts QT, not the other way around.

    My personal experience is this: I had a fish come down with a really bad case of ICH when I added new fish not long after my 180 was set up. Many predicted a dire outcome for that fish and the rest of the inhabitants of my tank. The advice I got was varied, but a common theme was that I had to get the infected fish out or the other fish would become infected and everyone would die. I considered catching and QTing the infected fish. I thought about catching and QTing all my fish and letting the tank lay fallow for a couple months until the parasite died. I talked to a lot of folks and ultimately I decided to ride it out, feed my fish a ton, infusing the food with garlic and Zoe, and see what happened. Fast forward several weeks, the infected fish got better, no one else got sick and everything in my tank is happy.

    There is ICH in my tank. I know it. I haven't found anything out there that's convinced me there isn't ICH in every tank, no matter what approach has been used to keep it out. I'm convinced by my experience that ICH is an opportunistic parasite that brings down fish with pre-existing conditions like stress. If I would have QTed my fish, it surely would have died, the other fish in my tank would have been stressed by me trying to get that fish out, and they might have been taken down as a result.

    So I guess I'm not sure about the efficacy of QTing. And you?


     
  2. Tickyty

    Tickyty Well-Known ReefKeeper

    446
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    I do QT everyghting prior to placing into display. I also treat with copper right off the start. I know that some will say that I should not do this but I do and it seems to work for me. I dip all corals prior to adding them to the DT as well. I did not have a ton of fish in my tank when I decided to go fallow for 72 days but my Hippo had ICH and after doing my research I decided that I wanted to try this out. That is also the point when I decided to QT all new fish going forward. I have lost a ton of money on fish by not being more deligent. One of the reasons I have a mixed reef today I will attibute to not QT'ing fish in the predator setup I had previously. They all died. I have seen the benefits so far in the past 6 months. Just my take on the issue.
     
  3. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    It isn't all about Ich.

    Consider this: he fish is stressed from travel, probably not eating, and tired. First thing you do is throw it in a tank where it has no holes to hide, and everyone in the tank is after him. And you expect the fish to find shelter, relax, rest up, eat, protect itself, etc. That is expecting a lot.

    QT allows the fish to relax, get strong, begin eating, show signs of disease, and allows a place for treatment if needed.
     
  4. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
     
  5. danmgray Well-Known ReefKeeper

    307
    Sioux City, IA
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0
    I now QT everything living that goes into my DT's...fish, corals, CUC, live rock, etc, but I didn't always...my methods have evolved over the last 15 years. As eager as I am to move things to the DT, I have learned that this method is best for me. I have also discovered that I enjoy giving a little extra attention to newcomers. I tend to observe them very closely and develop a deeper appreciateion of their behavior and needs. I also dip corals before and after QT.
     
  6. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

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    I should....but I don't, and I don't really have the space for it. I've def had some rough patches because of it. But when I move in to a home with a BASEMENT! I will most certainly, without exception.
     

  7. I'm in the same boat as Andy here, should but do not. Although I havent had any problems from it yet.... (knock on wood)
     
  8. moneypit

    moneypit Inactive User

    167
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    http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php



    The good, the bad, and the ugly about QT. Thats just one article about QT and the authers whom are mentioned aren't just little people in this industry.

    Sorry after losing a whole 300g tank of corals and a few fish expensive fish along my travels in SW, its QT or the specimen will not be in my DT. There's some nasty **** out there and it can/will wipe a tank out. I choose to err on the side of caution anymore.
    IMHO the gain surely outwieghs the minimal cost of setting up a small QT system. My current QT setup consists of a used 55g/29g tanks, HoB filter, heater and air pump/stone for less than 100 bucks. I do understand that not all aquarists have the space,time, and or cash to accomplish said QT practices, but seriously a 29g tank doesn't take up that much room. I do believe that setting up a QT regimen is a good idea, doesn't have to be stringent or hardcore, just enough to cover the minimal needs for QT.

    A parting thought:

    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others.[/i]" - Anthony Calfo
     
  9. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Man, this thing is neck and neck. "Yes" is up! Then "no"! I'm getting whiplash.

    Pretty good stuff so far and I'm learning a ton. Keep it up, yo.

    Love to hear more from the No QT crowd.
     
  10. phishcrazee Experienced Reefkeeper

    Riverside
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I always dip stony coral with one of the dips made for them. I do a quick, 15 second FW dip of softies, and I do a thorough visual inspection of whatever I'm putting into a tank. I will usually put new fish into a 5g bucket with a heater and small pump for 5-7 days to watch them, let them relax a little etc, then if they seem fine, I add them into the display tank after the lights are off. It has worked for me.......I think things like ich and probably most of the parasites fish *get* are already in the fish or the rock or ? and its stress that allows it an opportunity to surface.
     
  11. Maureen Experienced Reefkeeper

    Urbandale, IA
    Ratings:
    +329 / 0 / -0
    Interesting thoughts and I like the 5 gallon bucket idea, inexpensive and easy to set up and take down. It also makes for a quiet secluded home for a fish that is probably scared.
     
  12. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

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    +0 / 0 / -0
    I never QT anything I put in my tank simply because I did not have the room. I got lucky, so did you.
     
  13. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    There is no question about whether or not quarentining is nessesary or not. It is. If I had the space, the time/money is no question. You will be far ahead of the game in terms of time and money if you QT.


    Keep in mind, in addition to all the detectable nasties out there, there are also facualtative parasites/viruses/bacterias too. That is, pathogens which under one set of conditions are harmless, and under another set of conditions (when the pathogen is facing stress) the pathogen will switch to preying/parasitizing a fish/coral host in order to survive. Which is why I suggest pre-treatment as well as QT. I am able to execute pretreatment in the absence of space for QT system. I do this with 120ppm formalin baths for 5-10 minutes, and a dietary regime of garlic and metronidazole soaked foods for 3 weeks with fish. With corals I always use Coral RX for dips.


    I think a 5 gallon QT tank is a horrible idea. There is hardly enough space to make a fish comfortable, let alone a healthy culture of nitrifying bacteria to reduce ammonia to non-toxic levels quickly, or space/capacity to equip a 5 gallon bucket with filter support components. Fish suffer, even small fish, an enormous amount of visual stress which occurs when a human visitor appears suddenly without the ability for the fish to observe the persons approach from a far. Additionally a 5 gallon bucket does not provide an appropriate vantage point from which to assess the animals health condition. What's more, is that anybody using a 5 gallon bucket to QT is usually a makeshift setup, not usually set up and allowed to be prepared ahead of time. And perhaps most imporatnatly, an appropriate observational QT should last for at least 35 days. I would suggest that the minimum effective size for a QT system is 30 gallons, preferablly a 55 should be used.
     
  14. Big John

    Big John Inactive User

    966
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    I always QT'ed, what a PITA! But I believed in it.
    I was shocked to see the poll was dead even after I voted, I really thought more people QT'ed.
     
  15. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    no is ahead by one vote. keep em coming!!
     
  16. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    I should but havent. I tried last time then something came up. Its hard to keep a close eye on a qt tank.
     
  17. hart

    hart Well-Known ReefKeeper

    730
    Ratings:
    +131 / 0 / -0
    So I never used a QT tank, even voted no. Then this week I got an ich outbreak from a new fish, so I have a hospital tank going with cupramine treatment right now. I will be using QT tank now! I caught it early and the fish seem pretty good atm, so I am hopefully for recovery.
     

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