Questions about closed loop systems

Where are the existing bulkheads located and what size are they? What kind of flow are you aiming for in the tank? Location of bulkheads, size of plumbing and fittings will dictate how far you can be from the wall.

I don't know much on the front of closed loop pumps, but there are many good options for energy efficient external pumps giving plenty of flow. Another option may be to go with a large pressure rated pump and eductors on the returns.

If you buy dry rock you don't necessarily need to cycle it if what you have in your 90 (rock and inhabitants) goes straight into the 180. It will take a while for the new rock to populate, but there is no increase or decrease in the amount of wastes produced and therefore no reason that it would cycle. There may be small amounts of nutrients remaining within the rock, but you shouldn't have any problem.

 

Posted By RobynT on 02/25/2008 7:43 AM
 I have to focus on how I'm going to break this idea to my husband.  I think I'm going to start with his favorite meal and a double batch of choc chip cookies.    Wish me luck!
Might want to throw in a back rub too /site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/wink.gif

 

I guess I'm not sure if there's something special about where marco rock is harvested from that requires that it be cycled, but I've never had a problem with dry rock and don't see a reason why anyone should. I suppose just read what they recommend on their site.

I love plumbing.

 

Closed loops are a very good option IMO, but it does depend on the setup.  With clearance behind the tank being an issue, I would probably go another route, you would want good access to everything. 

 

take a couple members with you to look at the tank before you buy it to make sure it is what you want.

just make sure what your getting is something you can use.

a closed loop is a closed loop all you need to know is the location of the holes and their sizes. make sure what you are buying isnt a tank that was not well thought up, like bad locations and hole sizes.

myself, i wouldnt own a tank that is drilled on the bottom or the sides, you see people getting all creative when drilling holes and by the time they are done it looks like something out of a movie.
think about it, a hole thats half way down the tank in a 180 will put 90 gallons of water on your floor.
you can drill a bazillion holes for returns and have them all in perfect locations but if your overflows are to small you cant use a big enough pump to get good waterflow out of your perfectly located returns.
tanks have to be well thought out to work with a closed loop, im sure theres alot of people out there who have closed loop systems with powerheads in their tanks.

your tank will sit probably 8 inches from the wall with one, as long as you get the plumbing right you will have no buisness back behind it.

marco rock kicks butt.

 

Posted By seanndenise1 on 02/28/2008 7:23 PM

myself, i wouldnt own a tank that is drilled on the bottom or the sides
I'm kind of confused by this statement?  Does this mean that you'd never own a Reef ready tank? Personally I'll never own another tank where I need a hob overflow box (what a pain). Tanks are drilled all the time without any problems.  I agree about not wanting to buy a tank that looks like swiss cheese but a couple holes I think are ok.
I also like the looks of the marco rocks much better.

 

Posted By got2lb on 02/28/2008 7:32 PM
Posted By seanndenise1 on 02/28/2008 7:23 PM

myself, i wouldnt own a tank that is drilled on the bottom or the sides
I'm kind of confused by this statement?  Does this mean that you'd never own a Reef ready tank? Personally I'll never own another tank where I need a hob overflow box (what a pain). Tanks are drilled all the time without any problems.  I agree about not wanting to buy a tank that looks like swiss cheese but a couple holes I think are ok.
I also like the looks of the marco rocks much better.
no that means when you see people drilling holes in the center of their tank and running lock line in their rocks and its submerged under 100 gallons of water just waiting to end up on their floor, its a stupid idea.
i also think any plumbing on the side of a tank is an eyesore, its kind of in the same category as having the bubbling treasure chest or scuba diver in your tank.

 

Posted By seanndenise1 on 02/28/2008 7:40 PM
i also think any plumbing on the side of a tank is an eyesore, its kind of in the same category as having the bubbling treasure chest or scuba diver in your tank.

Or a couple of big powerheads in the corners.
My closed loop uses the existing holes from one of the two corner overflows.  I removed the overflow and just use one to feed my skimmer and hide the return from my refugium.  I simply made an intake by drilling pvc and the return end branches off into two locline outputs.  If I hadn't used existing equipment I'd have gotten a high pressure pump and fitted it with eductors for lots of flow (built homemade eductors but without a high pressure pump I don't get that much out of them, so far as I know.)

Most people do not use an overflow to feed a closed loop.  It would be noisy.  Every closed loop I have seen uses an intake inside the tank.

Having the holes on the bottom of the tank gives me zero space issues.  My tank is an inch and a half away from the wall, and only that far because of the trim and the fact that I wasn't thinking when I threw together what will be a temporary stand.

WHY is the forum not posting my comments the first time?  I hit submit and ta-da! I go back to the thread with a blank reply box...

 

Posted By ryansholl on 02/28/2008 7:52 PM
Posted By seanndenise1 on 02/28/2008 7:40 PM
i also think any plumbing on the side of a tank is an eyesore, its kind of in the same category as having the bubbling treasure chest or scuba diver in your tank.

or a couple big powerheads in the corners.

Most people do not use an overflow to feed a closed loop.  It would be noisy.  Every closed loop I have seen uses an intake inside the tank

oki

 

Thats kind of a weak closed loop system, really all you can do is move water from one point to another.  On my old 225 I had a total of 7 bulkheads for the closed loop, using an Oceans Motions 4-way, now that will move some water.
If the deal is good enough on the tank, I would not let the closed loop holes dictate your decision, you can always put plugs in them and simply not use it.  If you went with a couple Tunze 6100's, you could create plenty of water movement.  I am tending to steer you this way as a good closed loop will require lots of plumbing know how and you idicated it wasnt one of your favorite things to mess with. 
With that said, by having the 1 1/2 holes you have a good input for a closed loop, the outputs could go up and over the sides.  Here are some good examples:  http://www.oceansmotions.com/plumbingC4.htm  Using an OM 4way and a good size pump you could have some VERY good water movement w/out the pumps in your tank.  This is what I would do, but I like messing with plumbing and prefer to not have pumps in my tank if at all possible.  I didn't go this route on my little 60cube due to it not being drilled and not really having the room.  What you may not like is that you may need to bring the tank further away from the wall. 

 

Posted By seanndenise1 on 02/28/2008 8:18 PM

Posted By ryansholl on 02/28/2008 7:52 PM

Posted By seanndenise1 on 02/28/2008 7:40 PM
i also think any plumbing on the side of a tank is an eyesore, its kind of in the same category as having the bubbling treasure chest or scuba diver in your tank.

or a couple big powerheads in the corners.

Most people do not use an overflow to feed a closed loop.  It would be noisy.  Every closed loop I have seen uses an intake inside the tank.
you obviously havnt read her initial post in this thread, the tank in question does have overflows for a 75 gallon sump.
and being that not one person in this club has a floating scuba diver or a treasure chest in their tanks, but 85 percent do have powerheads in their tanks im kind of wondering what yuour motivation is for your remarks.
try reading the whole thread before getting your panties in a bunch.
i must have hit a nerve.
I read her post.  It said it had new bulkheads and a closed loop.  Most people do not use an overflow to feed a closed loop.  It would be noisy.  Every closed loop I have seen uses an intake inside the tank.
Some people (I am one of them) don't like powerheads hanging in the tank.  I know there are many others out there that feel the same.  There's nothing wrong with them, I just think they detract from what else is in the tank. 
My nerves are at ease and have been.
Robyn-  If you were to drill just a couple more holes you could set up a nice closed loop, or as Allen said you could plug them and not worry about them.  I'm limited by the number of holes I have in the bottom of my tank (I couldn't drill any additional holes because it was tempered after the original holes were drilled) and really can't set up the loop I'd like because of it, but since you don't have water in it yet and already know it's possible to drill it, it is definitely a viable option.

 

It depends on what you want to do, but you need at least 3 holes, IMO, so you at least alternate back and forth.  A total of five would be better.
Personally I wouldnt go that route though, theirs a lot of risk drilling that many holes.  I'd use one that you already have for the input and run the outputs over the side. 
Plugging them is not big deal, if they are threaded get a threaded plug, it they are slip you can just glue a plug in.  Keep in mind that this will make the bulkhead unusable.
As to cost, you will probably spend about the same on either by the time its all said and done.  The closed loop will require lots of fittings, which dont appear expensive but they add up fast.  If you went with an OM 4way and say a Sequence Barracuda, you have $600+ in it, not counting all the plumbing.  You'll easily hit $800 going this route.
Two Tunze 6101's and a multi controller will hit $1000!!  But, if you look on the for sale forum, you could pick this up used for much less.

 

I agree with Allen on most- I think another 2-3 holes would be good, but another 1 at the minimum.

As with the tunze equipment, the closed loop equipment could be found used, too. It really boils down to personal preference.

If it were you and didn't want to bother the husband I'd go with the tunzes. No additional holes required, no plumbing (in a setup with an OM that would end up being quite a project and plenty to ask of him), and an easily variable flow.

Allen, are the switching speeds on an OM adjustable?

 

I know Paul was working on something that would allow that, but I dont see anything new on the site, so I am guessing it is still a fixed speed.
I agree, this is more about personal preference than anything.  Both have pros and cons like anything.