return pump(s) concerns

What size tank is it?

Do you plan on using other power heads for circulation inside the tank?

Those sound like overkill. I have 1 mag 9 on my 250 G Tank with 150G sump.

Quieter, low power draw, dependable.

 

i have a Dolphin ampmaster 3000 on my 120 with 70g sump and it is way overkill, it makes my overflow very loud and i have it throttled way back too. i need a new pump. take that into consideration to, the more water you push in your tank the more it has to leave and quicker which will make it louder.

 

I would guess it would depend on how much flow you wanted thru your sump, right? And if you wanted to use the same pump for other stuff like powering a frag tank, various media reactors, a calcium reactor, etc. You would also take into consideration the head pressure and the amount of GPH loss you're going to take. The amount of flow you do is up to you, but you should stay under the max values that your overflows are rated for. Single overflows are typically rated at 600, doubles at 1200.

I would measure those holes again...I bet they are bigger than 1". If memory serves me correct, don't you need to drill a 1" hole for a 1/2" bulkhead? If you're measuring the inside of the bulkhead, well that's different, then it truly is 1".

Interestingly enough, the Mag 9 and the Snapper use almost exactly the same amount of power...around 95 watts. The Snapper is going to be more expensive up front because you have big bulkheads to put in (you have to drill a 3" hole to accommodate that 2" inlet into the Snapper). It's also recommended to put in full union ball valves on your return pumps so if you ever have to replace it, the replacement process is easier and you don't have to re-do your plumbing, and full union ball valves for that will run you around $75...so figure $100 for plumbing parts to run the Snapper.

As for the two pumps, are there two separate return lines? If so, then the two pumps do offer a form of redundancy...at least limited functionality when one goes down. If they both get pushed into the same return line, then you're already reducing your flow potential creating unnecessary pressure in your return line.

This also begs the question that I've wondered myself for a very long time...is there a good way to determine the actual amount of flow that you are pushing through your tank so that you can monitor it and determine when you see a decrease in flow?

Each option has pros and cons that you have to consider.

--AJ

 

If you want closed loop on a 180, you should probably look at something a little bigger like a Dart. Look at Matt's build thread here for ideas on closed loop. I don't know much about that, but I bet he can give you lots of recommendations. http://www.greateriowareefsociety.o...fault.aspx

--AJ

 

Hey snowman...your Ampmaster would probably be just about right if you were running it from your basement with more head pressure...that's a big pump!! 2700 GPH @ 3 ft head. It's probably still around 2500 GPH at 6 feet head and your overflows are probably only rated for 1/2 of that. Assuming that's in your stand, that's crazy overkill!

--AJ

 

Hey snowman...your Ampmaster would probably be just about right if you
were running it from your basement with more head pressure...that's a
big pump!! 2700 GPH @ 3 ft head. It's probably still around 2500 GPH at
6 feet head and your overflows are probably only rated for 1/2 of that.
Assuming that's in your stand, that's crazy overkill!

--AJ

 

heres a couple but they dont go very high

http://www.aquariumguys.com/gph-flow-meter.html

http://www.gigaweb.com/products/view/50732/flow-meter-250.html

 

So if 1 LG pump would size things appropriately, cap off the other bulkhead and just use one...or install the other pump in such a way that allows you to use either one pump or the other (using ball or gate valves).
Two pump design - one to be used as backup
=====PUMP====+
                              |
                              X 

 

yeah when i bought the pump i was going to be doing a basement sump, thats why i got it, but then bought a house and now have a through wall sump. the pump powers my skimmer too but still is way overkill on the tank. i will replace someday but need a pressure rated pump since i have a becket skimmer

 

what type of skimmer do you have? you want your skimmer going through more water than your return pump will pump. it will clean it better, the faster you move water through the sump the less time it has to clean and less efficient skimming will be, is how i understand it, i could be wrong though

 

But your pump isn't a pressure rated pump...it's rated for flow, not pressure...or is that what you're saying...that it will be better when you get a pressure rated pump?
--AJ

 

Posted By snowman82 on 12/29/2009 08:45 PM
what type of skimmer do you have? you want your skimmer going through more water than your return pump will pump. it will clean it better, the faster you move water through the sump the less time it has to clean and less efficient skimming will be, is how i understand it, i could be wrong though
Snowman you are correct...the skimmer's longer contact time with the h2o results in more efficient skimming.  Many people will use a large return pump which can hinder skimming .

 

I have a mag 7 running my return for my 185... not the best choice for heat- but I think it is a balanced amount of flow for that size.. when I go the reduncancy route both will be throttled back, or split to fuges and the like.
the closed loop is the center of my flow.. It is drilled and powered by an oceans motions and a Dart... down the road if coral grows like crazy I may upgrade the CL pump though.. Spent lots of time o the phone with Paul, the owner of Oceans Motions to design the flow pattern

1.5 drains are nice... /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/biggrin.gif

IMHO less flow through the sump is better... for several reasons.. the big ones being heat + electricity, micro bubbles, skimmer size, noise (1.5" helps though) 1" bulkheads should only really should only be calculated at 300gph for a drain... any more is asking for Murphy or a headache to strike.

On the skimmer and flow.

I have the panwold equivalent of a Iwaki 55 running my Bullet II beckett skimmer- which is VERY close to what you have.. the pump is rated at 1200 if no head pressure, though it is a pressure rated pump... though it is probably pushing 600 gph though the Beckett... maybe less... that is the number you want to use to figure skimmer turnover, not what the pump is rated for unrestricted. 1000 through the sump will be overkill, and will reduce how efficient your skimmer is, as it won't be pulling the dirtiest possible water.

the pump redundancy thing is an issue.... but if you could put 2 smaller pumps, that would be nice

I think the T you mentioned in the first post will have to be carefully designed to be pulled off..... as right angles on the intake side is asking for problems w/ cavitation and reduced pump efficiency which will also add micro bubbles and noise. just try to remove as many 90s as possible 2 45's are better) because of cavitation- make sure to leave a good length of pipe after the last 90 before the intake of the pump.... there is a formula I can dig for.. but if 1.5" diameter pipe, i want to say... 4-5 inches

matt

 

Posted By CryptoFusion on 12/30/2009 08:24 AM
I have an ETSS 800 powered by an iwaki 55rlt.  The iwaki should push around 1000gph through the skimmer.  I believe you guys are right about contact time within the skimmer itself, but I think as far as how much water goes through the sump is still debatable.  This article talks about flow requirements for skimmers a little bit.  Not saying this one article is the end-all be-all on the topic, but it's another perspective anyway.
http://www.reefland.com/rho/2006/05/overflows_sumps.php
I did find out last night that my drains on my overflow are 1.5" drains.
Nice skimmer!
ETSS Rates your skimmer to process 600-900 gph so I would configure your sump for return flow in that range.
I use a smaller ETSS rated to process 350-450 gph and am using an Eheim return that (according to head loss calculators and simple testing) is delivering a return of approximately 400-420 gph.
As others have stated too much return volume versus your skimmer capacity will hamper the effectiveness of the skimmer, whereas too little has a similar effect.
-Eric
Quoting from the article you referenced (good stuff, btw):
"The volume of flow through the sump really depends on the aquarist’s desires; however, some things need to be considered. For example, if a skimmer is placed into the sump, enough water must circulate through the sump to pass plenty of unskimmed water to the skimmer. Likewise, the same requirements exist for a chiller, or any other device that might be fed by sump water. If a protein skimmer is circulating 1800 gallons per hour, yet only 200 gallons per hour flow through the sump, there will not be enough new water passing through the sump for the skimmer to skim. This is not to say that the skimmer will run dry, but that it will continually reskim water that was just skimmed. Therefore, you need to make sure that you are passing enough water through the sump to meet the needs of the equipment and to keep it operating at its most efficient. As a general rule, the return pump should move five times the volume of the tank per hour through your sump. This means if you have a 75-gallon tank, the return pump should move at least 375 gallons per hour through the sump. "