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Stray currents...UH OH?!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by erayk1, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. erayk1 Well-Known ReefKeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    981
    Coralville, IA
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    +35 / 0 / -0
    http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1982254
    The above link is on RC that I post about the stray currents I found in my tanks.  In a nutshell, I had 34ish Volts in one system and 114 Volts in another!  I'm now down to 1.3ish Volts in the first system and 5.6 Volts in the second system.  Are those within the allowed limits??  I have no clue which is why I'm asking.  Those aren't currents that I can actually feel, but I'm assuming the inhabitants can? Maybe?  Any thoughts???
     
  2. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
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    I would say that...
    1) You should have grounding probes in your tank.2) Anything related to your tank should be on a GFCI outlet.
    More importantly than saving the lives of your tank inhabitants it can save your life...
     
  3. erayk1 Well-Known ReefKeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    981
    Coralville, IA
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    I understand the concept behind the grounding probes, sort of... What I don't get is how allowing the current to pass freely through the tank is any different that just having current in the tank. I realize the current isn't detected in the tank with probes, but the rest confuses me. That's why I'm not an electrician. /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif

    I would have them all on GFCI outlets but I'm renting the house and they are not even in the bathrooms...
     
  4. Rustin

    Rustin Inactive User

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    You can buy GFCI units that plug into your outlets. Grounding probes can be dangerous unless you have your tank plugged into a gfci.

    http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/do-i-need-a-grounding-probe-125659.html
     
  5. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
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    Personally, I wouldn't stick my hands anywhere near a tank that wasn't connected through a GFCI.
     
  6. erayk1 Well-Known ReefKeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    981
    Coralville, IA
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    That's kind of scary. Who all isn't using them I wonder??
     
  7. ruggerkc Experienced Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    North Liberty , IA
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    Me, both grounding probes and gfci's
     
  8. iaJim

    iaJim Inactive User

    775
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    GFCI, but no grounding probe. Guess I should take care of that.
     
  9. Bryan-1

    Bryan-1 Well-Known ReefKeeper

    413
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    I have mine on a GFCI out lets always have.
    I just recently added a grounding probe but I put it in the sump by the return pump.
    this was after my wife was helping on the tank and said she felt a tingle in her fingers when she would put them in the water I couldn't feel it.
    I asked sever people that run tanks if they use grounding probe in there tanks. Out of the 5 that said they do only 1 has it in there main tank. The rest run it in the sump best reason given for putting it there I felt was that is the last place to take current out before your water is reentering the main tank, also if the grounding probe were in your main tank you would make a more direct stream of current that the fish may swim through causing more harm.
     
  10. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
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    Realistically, you should have a ground probe in every tank that has electrical equipment around it.... The tanks aren't guaranteed to be electrically connected, so a ground probe in your sump won't necessarily save you if there is stray current in your display.
     
  11. erayk1 Well-Known ReefKeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    981
    Coralville, IA
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    Well I guess I will be looking into some gfci's first off, any ideas where I could pick some up cheap?
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
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    +1,821 / 14 / -0
    They're at any hardware store and I wouldn't go with a cheap one. You get what you pay for.

    Also remember that if you have a properly installed GFCI on a circuit, it will trip that entire circuit offline if there is a fault anywhere on the circuit.

    So you can put the GFCI on another receptacle away from the tank but on the same circuit, and it will trip if there is a fault in the tank.

    Buy a cheap GFCI outlet tester to verify that it's working right. They have 3 lights and you put it in the outlet and push the button and it pops the GFCI. It also tells you if you wired the outlet properly.
     
  13. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

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    Volts don't kill, it's the amps that'll get ya!
     
  14. sparky101

    sparky101 Inactive User

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    Be very sure of what your doing when wiring a GFI. On some of the cheaper brands, if you wire them inproperly, (line/load reverse) the outlet will work but won't trip out when theres a fault, or it will trip out but will still send power out. I personally would plug powerheads and pumps into different GFI'S, that way if a short causes one to trip, the other will be fine and those pumps will still run. otherwise everything goes dead, possibly along with livestock.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

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    what are you guys doing takeing out the old outlet and replaceing it with a gfi?
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

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    when your wife felt a tingle in her fingers and u did not more than likeley she had a cut on her finger and that salt will hurt ive mixed salt with cuts thought i got shocked but its is goood to have a gfi on your tank i should have them on my tanks but i don't is a surgprotector like a gfi ?
     
  17. erayk1 Well-Known ReefKeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    981
    Coralville, IA
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    The only problem I have is that some of the outlets are not accessible enough to replace the outlets. I might be able to get one that someone described to take care of the whole line of outlets. Kind of back to my original question, should I worry about those lower V's I found or will the grounding plugs just make those negligible? Also, will those grounding plugs take care of the "killer" amps that might be in the tanks? I appreciate all the input so far!
     
  18. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

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    (P/I=V, Q/V=C, V/R=I)

    Resistance of seawater= 0.2 ohms
    5.6V/0.2=I=28amps I assume it's on a 15amp breaker, so clearly it isn't drawing its full potential. (The resistor (the water) will buffer the ability of your skin to draw amperage)
    5.6V*15amps(I)= P= 84watts of stray electrical power. Probably acceptable, but yea a grounding probe will sap all the stray current.
     
  19. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    You only put one GFCI outlet per electrical circuit. Once the GFCI is properly installed, all of the outlets on the circuit are protected. As soon as a ground fault is detected, the GFCI is tripped which cuts power to the entire circuit.

    Electricity always follows the path of least resistance. The probe provides the path of least resistance... If there is a source of stray voltage in the tank, it will be grounded out by the probe which is what protects you.

    And no, A surge suppressor is not the same thing as a GFCI outlet.
     
  20. sparky101

    sparky101 Inactive User

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    This is correct however you need to be sure of yourself before installing one of these like i said. The GFI need to be installed on the first outlet in the circut ,with the power coming in being hooked up to the LINE side of the GFI. The other wires in the box that go to the rest of the outlets need to be hooked up to the LOAD side. This way all the other outlets on that circut have GFI protection. Like has been said, by using a ground probe it allows stray current to flow directly from the point of entry through the probe and safely to ground. Basically if theres a short and you stick your arm in the tank, the probe will complete the circut, INSTEAD OF YOUR ARM! The probe needs to be connected to a GFI protected circut so that if there is enough stray current it will trip the GFI indicating that theres a problem.
    Honestly the low voltage you describe isn't that much, yeah it's 28amps but only at 5.6v, now 28amps at 120v would be OUCH! Still i would think you shouldn't have any stray voltage in your tank.
    And like JB said, a surge protector is not the same thing but use one ontop of the GFi protection. If you have a power surge or lightning strike it could save a lot of your equipment.
     

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