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Tank Crashed

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fence13, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. Jun 29, 2014 #1
    Fence13 Des Moines

    Fence13 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    I'm sure this happens to everyone at least once. Friday night my 65 FOWLR crashed. Or I think it crashed. Thought I would post to get some insight, always helps to get a different point of view.


    So here's what happened. Please keep in mind that the corals (soft and lps) are still fine, look happy and healthy and show no signs of stress.


    The tank is a 65g with a 29g sump. The water chemistry wasn't perfect but the Nitrates kept rising. I was doing 15 gallon water change every other day to help get it back under control. I was also using a detoxifier to help things out as well for what it was worth.


    We had a power outage on Thursday; yet I don't know how much this effected anything because I don't know if the power was out for 5 minutes or more, or if it just switched back on immediately.


    Friday, both clowns were showing white spots and none of the lionfish were showing any issues. But when I woke up Saturday morning, there was one dead clown, one dead Mombasa lionfish, and one dead Fu Manchu lionfish. The other clown died on Sunday morning. The invertebrates were and still are fine. My snowflake is fine, not even breathing heavy. I moved my Zebra lionfish to my reef tank to take him out of whatever could be causing issues in case it was something in the water.


    None of these fish were large: both clowns were small, the eel is 12", the lionfish were 4", 3", and 2". I've had them all about three months with no issues until this all of a sudden loss of life.





    Now the eel and his sea-serpent buddy are hanging out alone with all growing coral and rock anemones. Part of me wants to think it was a disease but it doesn't seem to fit. I would also expect the coral to be showing signs of stress if the water quality was bad enough to be the demise of the fish. Still not sure why the eel wouldn't be showing signs of stress or heavy breathing either.
     
  2. Jun 29, 2014 #2
    jazzybio13 Ames

    jazzybio13 MBI Breeder

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    Ok when you say "white spots"... You mean like ich? If not ich then please elaborate on the description. Maybe we can help trouble shoot this with you.
     
  3. Jun 29, 2014 #3
    Sponge Marshalltown, IA

    Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

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    It does not sound like a tank crash IMO.
     
  4. Jun 29, 2014 #4
    Zach Coralville, Iowa

    Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

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    Doesnt sound like a crash. Nitrates rise and fall with water changes. Thats kinda fishy life. As far as the losses sorry for them. That always sucks. However how long has this tank been up and running. What else are you dosing? And why the detoxer stuff?
     
  5. Jun 30, 2014 #5
    Fence13 Des Moines

    Fence13 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    jazzy: As we both know white spots mean a lot of different causes. In this case for the clowns, the slime coat seemed to be affected and the spots were more like spots than bumps. THe two dead lions didn't show either of those issues; but I know lionfish skin is different - same with the eel skin

    sponge: You've seen a lot, so you're opinion counts. At least if it wasn't a crash it might be "curable"

    Zach: Tank has been up and running 4 months. Nothing else was being dosed aside from BRS Alk. The detoxer was because the Nitrates were getting up above 20.
     
  6. Jun 30, 2014 #6
    jazzybio13 Ames

    jazzybio13 MBI Breeder

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    yeah Fence13 you and I both have seen plenty of 'spots' lol. ok... so was it more along the lines of the slime coat had whiting out in chunks? or like a blanket coating of white in certain area's? How were the eyes on the clowns... did you happen to grab any pictures of it? (I know you have a good camera in that house! lol!!!) brooklynella hostilis kills fast and can appear in a white fuzzy spotting along a fish... and clowns are extremely susceptible to it, and it's highly contagious. Google some images of that, and tell me if that's what you think it was? That will at least get us a starting place on what it was if anything we can treat and how to handle the tank. i would agree in saying it's not a "crash", but it is certainly something to be concerned about! That many losses and you know something's up!
     
  7. Jun 30, 2014 #7
    Fence13 Des Moines

    Fence13 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Brooklynella Hostilis does look close to what the Clowns had. From some quick googling "research" that's also a possible cause of the demise of the lions. Current theory could be that the power went out long enough for the fish to be weakened and the disease (which could have been held in check before) took over, and caused the rapid demise?


    It's quite ironic that with all the great camera equipment in the house, I didn't get a single picture. I was distracted by the loss. I'll try better next time. =(








    EDIT: Forgot to mention the eyes were sort of glossed over and not clear like normal.
     
  8. Jun 30, 2014 #8
    jazzybio13 Ames

    jazzybio13 MBI Breeder

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    Hey let's just pray there isn't a next time! Never fun to have losses. /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/sad.gif
     
  9. Jun 30, 2014 #9
    Sponge Marshalltown, IA

    Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

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    I was thinking Brook for the clowns but I wasn't aware it affected Lionfish...Learn something everyday :0)

    Don't sweat the NO3 being 20ppm! Everything should be okay...just do the WC's and things will be fine:0) What were you using as the detox?

    Here's a good writeup on Brook and Uronema:

    http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

    Good luck guy!!
     
  10. Jul 4, 2014 #10
    Fence13 Des Moines

    Fence13 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Well there's good news and bad news. Good news is I got that picture you were wanting.........





    So I guess the questions become, was this what we were thinking? If it is a disease will it linger in the tank without any fish? And/or how can I kill it without harming the corals, and cleanup crew. I.e. no copper treatment

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2018
  11. Jul 4, 2014 #11
    Zach Coralville, Iowa

    Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

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    Brooklynella hostilis and the less common, and often misidentified, Uronema marinum are both ciliate parasites that infect the skin of many species of marine fish. Brooklynella hostilis is often referred to as causing clown fish disease and it is true that clown fish are very susceptible to this pathogen. However, this parasite is opportunistic and will infect a wide range of fish species. 

    In both Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum infections, acute symptoms can appear very rapidly and fish can go from being very healthy to near death in a few hours. Typically, reef keepers go to bed with their tank looking well and wake up to find the fish in crisis showing acute symptoms. 

    Both of these parasites have a direct life cycle: they live on the fish, feeding and the population growing very rapidly, then drop off into the water column (where they can live quite happily for some time) and then go on to infect another fish.

    Its really really rare for lionfish to become ill this is a bad sign one off.


    If all the fish are gone you can wait 8-12 weeks for the remaining parasites to die off. This is a bit of a wait and isn't 100% effective.
    The only 100% is to nuke the tank.

     
  12. Jul 4, 2014 #12
    Zach Coralville, Iowa

    Zach Well-Known ReefKeeper

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    While not as common, Brook can and will effect anyfish!

    lionfish in particular are really hardy fish. Specifically voltians. So this makes me thinknthere was something else going on as well...

    power outages also tend to be a little overplayed depending on tank size and bioload. But most tanks will last a good deal longer than people would think without any tinkering. But this is a whole nuther topic together.

    Also 20 ppm of NO3 isnt terrible right now. But if it had been sustained for many days or a couple weeks this could be the initial cause of the stress.
     
  13. Jul 4, 2014 #13
    Sponge Marshalltown, IA

    Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

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    I've only seen pics of it, never in person but from what I see and can tell, it looks like Brook to me:-( Was there quite a bit of loss of color on the heads and slime coat heavy with sloughing of the skin?

    I would play it safe and have the tank go fallow for 6 weeks at least. QT and treat the fish even though you aren't seeing any further signs (hopefully). If it was/is Brook, they will infect the other fish and it usually gets in their gills first :9( Good luck!
     
  14. Jul 4, 2014 #14
    Sponge Marshalltown, IA

    Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

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    Here's a link that I think provides very good info for you :0) :

    http://www.chucksaddiction.com/brookynella.html
     
  15. Jul 5, 2014 #15
    Fence13 Des Moines

    Fence13 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Thanks for the support all. I have a mini vacation coming up at the end of July. So I'll let the tank remain fallow until then and then we can begin the slow process of starting over.
     

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