The truth about Jebao pumps

Well for starters, the koralia didn't blatantly copy the design of the Tunze pump...

 

Exactly. It is also a false assumption to say that these pumps are horrible for vortech and tunze. The owners might not make as much money, but the company will have to invest more in R&D to keep new models coming out every few years or do research into cheaper production or perhaps decrease their profit margin. It has taken quite a while for this "copy" to come out, let see if tunze was using that crazy high price point to develop new models so they can counter it. Needing more reinvestment in the company is not a bad thing, nor is streamlining their manufacturing (if the cost per pump is really that high for them to make).

But this has apparently caused quite a divide in the hobby. It is unlikely that one side is going to convince the other at this point.

 

This is called patent trolling. I have a friend that is a patent attorney and this happens everyday. They threaten people who can not afford the legal fight and in this case it is their distribution network. If they had a legal leg to stand on they would be suing Jebao and not trying to intimidate their distributors.


AND ONCE AGAIN THEY ARE NOT MISLEADING PEOPLE WITH THE NAME WP40. THEY HAVE BEEN USING THAT NAMING CONVENTION FOR YEARS. Do a little research of your own instead of reading something on the internet and taking it as gospel. Why would they steal Tunze design and then name it after Vortech?


I would have never spent $400 on a pump anyway so neither would have not seen a drop of my money. This has brought to the masses what they should have tried to do years ago. If you want to drive innovation try to drive cost out of your products so that you can bring a more cost competitive product to market.

 

Tickyty, ask your patent friend what he/she thinks about this and whether they think that Jebao is infringing on Tunzes product (assuming the Tunze has all the necessary patents). And ask your friend if the first thing he/she does when they come across a product that infringes one of their client's patents is to sue them? Or do they send cease and desist letters? I happen to know someone a little closer to me than a friend who is also a patent attorney.

As to why they decided to steal Tunze's design and then name it after a Vortech, your guess is as good as mine. Doesn't mean that they still didn't steal Tunze's design.

 

I will ask him that but the only reason I know about patent trolling is one of their biggest clients does this all the time. Most of the time it is a meritless claim but hey he is the client and that is what pays the bills. But let's be real, every company disects their competitors products and look at ways to build a similar product but make adjustments to the design. I have first hand knowledge of competitior tear downs. The Tunze and Jebao are dissimilar enough to get around their patent. If they ripped their design off how come they push a ton more water, they had to change the design somewhere to show that much of an improvement.


"They are McDonald's, we are McDowell's. They have the Golden Arches, we have the Golden Arch." The same concept here. They may look alike but they are not alike.

 

If high end products were all that were available in lighting, pumps, etc. because these companies were able to enforce patents to the point where nothing similar could be made in a low end version, how many people would still be in saltwater? They would control the market and could inflate the prices ridiculously- to some extent it appears to be happening. It's not a cheap hobby regardless, and there is a need for competitive lower end products.

 

Perfectly said.

 

We'll keep using car analogies here. I want a Ferrari, but I can't afford one. It is not my god-given right to own a Ferrari. I am only allowed one if I can afford one. Instead, I have a Chevy. The chevy does many of the same things that the Ferrari does, just maybe not quite as well. Some would argue that it even does some things better. I am sure that the engineers at GM have a Ferrari or two that they have looked over, torn apart, studied, and tried to see what they could incorporate into their designs. However, Chevy is not allowed to copy the exact design of the Ferrari. And they wouldn't be allowed to say that just because they were able to get a few more MPH out of the car than Ferrari could, that the patents Ferrari has on the car aren't valid.

 

Why do people have such hardons for any of these companies? As a consumer all I care about is what gives me the best performance for the best price. If we want to add morality to shopping, then I guess we are all going to hell. So let's suppose (ridiculously) that Jebao is violating patents. Oh well, guess I get the spoils from that by getting a cheap pump before some legal action exiles them back to China. If your wallet is fat enough to buy on principle rather than market value, feel free.

 

Did you read Bud's post that shows that the design is not identical. If they stole the design where is it identical? Have you even seen a WP40?

And if I could not afford a Ferrari I would just take a MR-2 stick a Ferrari emblem kit on it and tune up the motor and brakes and be happy with it. The best part about it is you would not even know the difference, well people didn't in '97. /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif

 

Because their distributors would refuse to stock their shelves with other products.
I can think of a few respectable online and physical stores that were selling them prior to Tunze sending the letter earlier this year.
I really dont see why people are up in arms. Similar, cheaper products exist in every industry. If the Tunze or Eco-Tech pumps are truely better people will continue to shell out their money for them. My suspicion is that these pumps appeal to a completely different demagraphic, with completely different expectations.
4

 

I think you are correct. It is really the cheaper powerhead companies that should be angry about these. I couldn't spend more than $200 max for water movement in my 65 so I got a WP25. I would not have gotten a vortech or tunze. No sale loss there. I would have gotten 1 large koralia and reused pumps that I now have mixing saltwater.

 

Id bet $1000 that if someone came out with an mp10 knockoff for $75 people would be snatching them up one after another. People are out to save money. US companies dont mean much anymore when their components are made over seas or if the parts are made here they are assembles overseas...

 

I have no hard on for any of these companies. However, this ultimately hurts us all (the consumer) in the long run. In the short term, we may get better prices and we are all happy about that (as long as our house doesn't burn down) but companies will not spend the money long term on research and development if their designs are going to get ripped off and the market flooded by cheap Chinese knock-offs. Where is the incentive? I guess I just don't see where this is different than any other situation where we would all agree that it would be unacceptable for this to happen. Is it just because this is a hobby, not a need, and because we all really want nice pumps but don't want to pay for them?

Tickyty - I have read Bud's post and while I haven't seen it in person, I have certainly seen enough pictures of the WP 40 to know that is a Stream knock-off. You do realize that it doesn't have to be identical to infringe on patents, right?

I have said my peace and made my annual appearance on the boards and will now crawl back in my hole.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more DSMClown. I believe that it encourages the companies to actively invest more in R&D to keep rolling out fresh designs as the older ones get copied. As for the patent it really depends on the wording and I have not seen the language used in the Tunze patent, but if you can show improvement (if even in your eyes) then it is not patent infringement. Lawyers argue this stuff all day and I am sad to say that I have had to be in those meetings.

But hey, we are all entitled to our opinion. Amazing to see such response for this topic.

 

DSMClown,

My Masters Degree in Engineering more than prepared me to understand patent infringements. I have a couple myself and that is how I know how little it takes to get around one. I am not saying that is what I did, just saying that a tweak here or there is all you need to get around them. If you build a cost competitve innovative product then consumers will buy the better product as long as it is COST COMPETITIVE. I too shall close this thread from my existance.

 

A couple of nice cold beers could settle all of this /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif