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Thinking about a controller pt 2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dead fish, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    OK, I had a thread up a while back thinking about a controller, but I decided to get wavemaker pumps first. Found some and have them on the tank now, so the next purchase will be the controller. I'm still trying to figure out whch controller best fits my needs. Help me out a little?


    Here's what I have on my tank so far:


    What I want to control/monitor:

    Algae Scrubber lights
    heaters
    return pump
    skimmer
    Temp
    pH


    Other stuff on the tank:
    3 AI Sols with controller
    Coralife 5800 Wavemaker that has it's own controller
    Eshopps gravity fed ATO


    Potential add-ons to tank:


    ?


    Ideally I'd like to hook the wavemakers up too, but I don't think that's possible since the have their own brain and settings with no way to tap in. It's not important to me to control the lights since I have the AI controller and it's doing fine. What am I missing? What else might I add to my tank later on that I'm not thinking of now?


    Here's what I'm considering so far:


    Apex Jr. w/out the display.

    By far the cheapest option at $150. I like that it offers web, but I think I could live without it. This would control the basic minimum of stuff I have now.


    Apex

    This, of course, is the gold standard, but at $500 a big expense for some additional functionality I might never use. I don't think I'll be running more than this one tank anytime soon. It has web and email/text alerts and that's attractive, but seeing how so much on the tank is already controlled otherwise, is it overkill?


    Reef Angel

    At $219, this is the real wild card. It offers a ton of functionality straight out of the box. I like that I can use the float switches in my ATO and in my water change reservoir. The downside is that there's no web capability out of the box. You can get wifi with a $110 box. And there are mixed reports of how user friendly it is. But from what I've heard, the Apex isn't all that great in terms of user-friendliness either, so...


    Here's what the Reef Angel can do out of the box:







    What can I do?




    [​IMG]
    Monitor Temperature
    [​IMG]
    Monitor pH


    [​IMG]
    Control Heater
    [​IMG]
    Control Lights


    [​IMG]
    Wavemakers
    [​IMG]
    Auto Top Off




    [​IMG]

    Control Chiller
    [​IMG]
    Control Fans



    [​IMG]
    LED Dimming
    [​IMG]
    Delayed Start


    [​IMG]
    Increase/Decrease Speed on Controllable Fans
    [​IMG]
    Increase/Decrease Flow on Controllable Tunzes


    [​IMG]
    Check Low Water Level (RO/DI container)
    [​IMG]
    Check High Water Level (Display/Sump Overflow)


    [​IMG]
    Control Powerheads
    [​IMG]
    Control Skimmer


    [​IMG]
    Control Return Pump
    [​IMG]
    Control Calcium Reactors



    le="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-style: none none solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; outline: none;">

    [​IMG]
    Control Media Reactors
    [​IMG]
    Control Kalk Reactors





















    Package Contents


    [*]Head Unit (32K memory)
    [*]Relay Box
    [*]HDDB15 Communication Cable
    [*]PH Probe
    Waterproof Temperature Probe
    2x Float Switch
    2x Float Switch Connectors
    USB-TTL converter cable
    [/list]





    So I'm stumped. I've pretty much decided against the various ReefKeepers because I've heard so many tales of woe online.


    Any thoughts on any of this would be welcome. Here's a poll to offer a vote.
     
  2. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    I would look into the APEX. While the JR is the cheapest option you really don't get much for $150.
    Will 4 outlets be enough? I would guess you would eventually need more. Add an EB4 at $110,or an EB8 at $150. What about a PH probe? Add the $45 PH probe and your closer to the $300-$350 range to do what you are wanting. For that price you can usually find a used APEX and have more than you will need.
     
  3. Waverz

    Waverz Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    If you already have proprietary controllers running your light and pumps and you say you don't need a web interface why do you need another controller?

    Here you mention what you want the controller to do but honestly IMO you don't really need an additional controller and it would just be a waste of money.


    What I want to control/monitor:
    Algae Scrubber lights - Get a $5 timer
    heaters - a $50 Ranco controller can give you very stable temps
    return pump- power strip with on/ff switch
    skimmer - power strip with on/off switch
    Temp - readout via ranco controller listed above
    pH - reef tanks are buffered systems as long as you aren't doing things like dosing or running a Ca reactor your pH levels are probably where they need to be

    Go buy some more fish or a bunch of frags instead. /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/wink.gif


     
  4. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    I have most of that stuff set up as you suggest now except the temp stuff which I just monitor with a cheap digital read out. I'm just not real happy with the setup and don't have a ton of confidence in it. Things get challenging when I go out of town and someone else has to watch the stuff, for one thing. And it'd be nice to have more flexibility in what I set up and how, not to mention the fact that the one thing I screw up most often is turning off my RO when I'm filling my reservoirs. It'd be great to have that controlled and monitored.


    It seems like these controllers, particularly the Apex and the Reef Angel could really bee a boon to my set up and peace of mind. But maybe I'm wrong. I only know what I know now.
     
  5. Waverz

    Waverz Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0



    Put a $10 float valve in your RO storage reservoir. Problem solved.

     
  6. iaJim

    iaJim Inactive User

    775
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Waverz beat me to it. Cheapest and most reliable solution to that.
     
  7. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    a simple float switch will take care of your ro shut off.

    I agree with Waverz, I am not sure exactly how a controller is going to help you with the things you are wanting it for.

     
  8. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    Even with a controller I would have the $10 float valve on your reservoirs. Turning off the RO water is always an issue. I had numerous "floods" before buying a float valve. Best money I spent on the reef LOL.
     
  9. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    That's one thing that is kinda cool about the Reef Angel. It comes with 2 float switches.


    I have to admit that I'm kind of a gadget geek too and all this stuff is kinda sexy to me. The Reef Angel seems to be the most feature rich for the least money.


    I hear what you guys are saying, though.
     
  10. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Quick contextual question: Waverz and mthomp, do you guys run controllers on your systems?
     
  11. Waverz

    Waverz Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Float switches can be purchased on Ebay for $1 so I wouldn't base my decision on that.

    Most people use float VALVES and not SWITCHES in their reservoirs because they can be plugged right into the RO unit. If your unit is equipped with an auto shut off valve it will actually quit producing water when it senses pressure on the output line.

     
  12. Waverz

    Waverz Expert Reefkeeper

    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    I run an Apex Lite here at my home which is running my reef tank as well as my new poison dart frog tank. I use my Apex to control EVERYTHING and have no other proprietary controllers.


    I have also installed the Apex system at AC&C which basically runs the entire store.


    That said I usually tend to be more biased towards the Apex system because its the one I am most familiar with.


     
  13. mthomp

    mthomp Inactive User

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I do not, I use power strips and a $5 timer.
     
  14. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    This is one I'm debating too. Do I buy one? Its mixed reviews in the club.
     
  15. Kpotter2 Expert Reefkeeper

    North liberty, IA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    I really don't think you understand what a Controllor does for you. Its a tank baby sitter. It can even add water for you if you want to program it to do it. It could turn your Tank room light on if you program it to do it. If your return pump brakes and is not pumping you can put a float switch in you sump that will tell the apex to email you when the swirch is Opened. You can hook your heater up to it along with your temp probe will control your tank temp and if it dips low or breaks then you will know something is wrong by email or text. You can't get that with out a controller. There is so many other things that can be done it crazy. Controlling everything you plug into the wall is done by your apex when you plug it into the DC8. Skimmer,Sump pump,heater,sump light, tank lights you name it. All the other package can do some thing Apex can do, but Apex is the best of its class in speed and craftsmanship.


    Anyway Apex is the Number one Contollor on ReefTronics.com!


    [​IMG]


    Even debates on Reefcentral have been Apex hands down Apex for there controllers and Service. Paul from Neptune Systems is there tech service gets back to me with in 24 hours every time. I contacted him yesterday about a problem with new beta Android app and he emailed me today. Can't beat that service.

    Reefcentral debate 68% Apex and 30% ReefAngel

    I did a lot of research you have no idea and ended in buying Apex. I needed no control and was using all timers, but needed a change so I didn't have to check PH and temp all the time. I can now check it from work,Mall or Car.


    That is why I got the Apex controller.


    KP
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2018
  16. Kpotter2 Expert Reefkeeper

    North liberty, IA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Even your pull is proving to be Apex 6 to 1.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2018
  17. Kpotter2 Expert Reefkeeper

    North liberty, IA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Couldn't agree more David! You hit nail right on the head

     
  18. dead fish Dead Fish

    832
    Iowa City
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    One thing that really concerns me is that most folks who have posted on various forums about the Apex usually say something like "When I have contacted customer service..." That makes me nervous. Usually folks have had to be in touch with them multiple times. It's great that the Neptune provides quick service, but still, for $500 it seems like there shouldn't be as much contact with customer service. Most of my experience with this kind of stuff somes from the world of professional audio and if you had to contact the company about a piece of gear as much as it seems folks have to with the Apex, people would stop buying that gear. You had trouble out of the box with a piece of your system, right Kyle? How many times have you had to contact the company since you got it? With the Reef Angel, at least everything is open source and modular. Seems like it'd be easier to service. And their forum is really active, as well, so help could be minutes away.


    The thing that sucks about this particular purchase. I'm with you, I do understand all the stuff the Apex can do. I've been reading and watching videos and all that for about 2 months, but really until I have something in my hands and running on my tank there's no way to know if I'm going to like it or fully understand what it can do.


    That's why I'm reluctant to drop $500 on this thing and am considering the Reef Angel over it. Also, the Reef Angel offers a cable that will control the AIs for $15. Then I could sell the cruddy AI controller and the only think I wouldn't have hooked up to the controller would be my wavemakers.
     
  19. mpivit Well-Known ReefKeeper

    494
    Dubuque
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0
    I did quite a bit of research on this topic about 2 months ago. I thought the ref angel was a much better value, however I never pulled the trigger.
    I actually downloaded the apps so I could further compare as well. Ultimately I purchased a cheap, semi broken ac jr (I had to resolder some wires on the inside.)

    I did not know the unt was broke when I purchased it. I contacted customer support and explained what ws happening. They responded within an hour on what might be damaged and how I could attemp to fix. This was for a unit that was purchased 3rd hand and was probably 5-10 years old. I was impressed that they responded at all, let alone with info on how I could attempt to fix what might be wrong.

    With that said, I've heard reefangel is just as responsive. It is important to remember that Reefangel Is made for people who like to tinker, and their customers are probably more likely to figure things out for themselves, rather than immediately calling for help. That may be why neptune gets more customer service calls.





     
  20. JB Veteran Reefkeeper

    Marion
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    For the record, I wouldn't trust anything "Open Source" to control my reef tank. I know that's a bit counter intuitive to what open source is supposed to be, but my experience has been that almost always commercial products are better than their open source counterparts.

    -JB
     

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